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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
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Maybe Toyota or GM ought to buy this technology: This battery seems to Rock The odometer of a low emission hybrid electric test vehicle today reached 100,000 miles as the car circled a track in the UK using the power of an advanced CSIRO battery system. The UltraBattery combines a supercapacitor and a lead acid battery in a single unit, creating a hybrid car battery that lasts longer, costs less and is more powerful than current technologies used in hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs). “The UltraBattery is a leap forward for low emission transport and uptake of HEVs,” said David Lamb, who leads low emissions transport research with the Energy Transformed National Research Flagship. “Previous tests show the UltraBattery has a life cycle that is at least four times longer and produces 50 per cent more power than conventional battery systems. It’s also about 70 per cent cheaper than the batteries currently used in HEVs,” he said. By marrying a conventional fuel-powered engine with a battery to drive an electric motor, HEVs achieve the dual environmental benefit of reducing both greenhouse gas emissions and fossil fuel consumption. The UltraBattery also has the ability to provide and absorb charge rapidly during vehicle acceleration and braking, making it particularly suitable for HEVs, which rely on the electric motor to meet peak power needs during acceleration and can recapture energy normally wasted through braking to recharge the battery. Over the past 12 months, a team of drivers has put the UltraBattery to the test at the Millbrook Proving Ground in the United Kingdom, one of Europe’s leading locations for the development and demonstration of land vehicles. “Passing the 100,000 miles mark is strong evidence of the UltraBattery’s capabilities,” Mr Lamb said. “CSIRO’s ongoing research will further improve the technology’s capabilities, making it lighter, more efficient and capable of setting new performance standards for HEVs.” The UltraBattery test program for HEV applications is the result of an international collaboration. The battery system was developed by CSIRO in Australia, built by the Furukawa Battery Company of Japan and tested in the United Kingdom through the American-based Advanced Lead-Acid Battery Consortium. UltraBattery technology also has applications for renewable energy storage from wind and solar. CSIRO is part of a technology start-up that will develop and commercialise battery-based storage solutions for these energy sources.
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 21, 2008 11:17 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 21, 2008 5:42 pm) Lead-acid batteries will improve, like all batteries. You can't escape their fundamental chemical limitations. They don't now or ever will have the potential that Li-ion batteries have in terms of energy density. Your posts imply that you have some unique insight into this matter that escapes all the major auto manufacturers. I suspect that you have a laptop that remains plugged in even when you're away from the house, like most people. Maybe I'm wrong but if that is the case aren't you afraid of this battery burning your house down? Maybe you consider the possibility so remote that the risk is acceptable, again, like most people. Just recently Renault/Nissan announced plans to introduce an EV around 2010, which uses a Li-ion battery pack. Maybe they should be consulting with you before they squander too much money on this dead-end endeavour. With all that said I do think that lead-acid batteries have a future, albeit limited, in terms of low cost EVs. And incorporating ultra-capacitors will allow them to maximize their efficiency and utility. So I view this particular advance, if credible, as a good thing. Transitioning to EVs will be a long term process. If in 10 years 5% of the vehicles on the road are EVs I'd consider that a big success.
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 21, 2008 6:22 pm) I do leave a laptop plugged in from time to time. And my latest is Li-Ion. I guess I am depending on the charger technology too much. I have never felt the battery get warm which is a sign of overcharging on any battery. To me the killer for Li-Ion is price even more than fire hazard. I think we are both hoping for the same thing. That is a break through to a truly usable energy storage system that is cost effective. The older I get the less likely I will see EVs as mainstream transportation. I may be disappointed but not distraught. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 21, 2008 8:11 pm) So in 2004 were people talking about EVs powered by Li-ion batteries by 2006-2007? I sure don't remember this. In fact if you asked the average person back then what the chances of a major automanufacturer producing an EV or PHEV by 2010 their answer would probably be there is almost zero chance and what's a PHEV? Ask the same question now and the answer would be very different. So if anything the timeline for EVs and PHEVs has accelerated, it's not something that's always been 2-3 years in the future. My guess is there will be a limited number of EVs, PHEVs by 2010 but by 2011 the availability will increase substantially. Toyota's Li-ion batteries
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 22, 2008 9:29 am) Actually they were saying they would be available earlier than that. The conversions started shortly after the Prius II came on the market. Turning the Prius into a Plug-in Hybrid 14 December 2004 The California Cars Initiative (CalCars), a non-profit startup dedicated to jump-starting the market for plug-in hybrids (PHEV), is building a prototype Prius (the Prius+) capable of functioning as a plug-in hybrid and running in full EV (electric vehicle) mode for longer distances than possible with the original Toyota equipment. The CalCars team is adding a different battery pack and grid-charging capabilities. The group has started with a prototype using lead-acid batteries that delivers less than 10 miles of EV-only range at low speeds. They hope to upgrade to a custom-built NiMH pack for an expected range of some 20 miles. CalCars would like to build a second prototype using a Li-Ion battery and hope for a 30+ mile range. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/12/turning_the_pri.html PS I was looking for an EV or Diesel small PU when the Prius came out in 2000.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 22, 2008 10:05 am) Will these vehicles be affordable for the masses? Maybe not at first but that's irrelevant since the production capacity might not even be enough to satisfy the early adopters who aren't all that sensitive to price. Hopefully by the time this group has been saturated prices will have come down. If the first Chevy Volts sold for $25k the buyer would probably just turn around and sell it on ebay for $35k. So there really isn't much point in this vehicle being affordable when it first comes out. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 21, 2008 8:11 pm) I believe that there are two reasons. 1) The technology is not there yet, whether Li-ion or NiMH. One is unproven and the other is somewhat limited in capability. 2) How big is the market really for this technology and who will be the buyers? Toyota is at least as good a Marketing company as it is an auto-building company. I believe that they are studying how to market this. Consider:... Nobody living in a city who parks on the street will get any benefit from PHEVs. These owners won't be able to run a wire from two blocks down the street to their building and up 47 floors. If you are taking a long trip, say from CA to FL then only the first few miles have any benefit the rest are all on the 'base' technology. There is no infrastructure - yet - to recharge except at your home. How much extra will a 'double battery' or new Li-ion pack add to the current price of say a Prius? How much will this relatively small segment of buyers be willing to pay for the technology upgrade? Can the Li-ions be warranted for 10 yrs / 150,000 mi? Who knows. Lots of marketing decisions not to mention the technical hurdles to overcome. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 23, 2008 6:19 am) If you are taking a long trip, say from CA to FL then only the first few miles have any benefit the rest are all on the 'base' technology. I think you've pretty much covered the typical motorist and his typical drive with those two examples. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 23, 2008 6:19 am) I was going by all the hype from Toyota of a 100 MPG Prius. Maybe it is not a PHEV. It will be interesting to see them get more than double the current mileage without charging them up first. This was projected by Toyota for 2009 MY back in 2006. That means they should be in showrooms in the next few months. see article: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109981 PS I thought people living in apartments in the city were supposed to ride the bus.
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