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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 26, 2004 1:24 pm) I'll point you to Panasonic website that have all the information that you'll need. See which hybrid used which type of NiMH: http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/e_news.html See spec of 1st gen and 2nd gen prismatic NiMH: http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/catalog/e_kaku.html Spec of Cylindrical NiMH: http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/catalog/e_maru.html Battery catalog page with more links: http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/e_catalog1.html Dennis
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 26, 2004 1:47 pm) |
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Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for the updates... Very useful to have these boards... |
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quote MidCow:-"The current fear is the unknown life-span of the traction batteries."-end quote Lots of good points MidCow, you have a good grasp of the situation. Leading to a "BUT:" I'm not sure where you might be getting the indications of this being an actual FEAR that might be preventing Hybrid purchases...?....?...? So far we have true stories of Priuses going 150K miles and being bought back by Toyota for evaluation... We have 1997 model year Priuses on the road in Japan... We have warranties of 8 yr/100,000 miles on the batteries in some hybrids.... Is there ANYWHERE a story of ONE SINGLE potential Hybrid buyer telling the salesperson, "Well, I love everything about the car, but that darn uncertainty about the life of the battery is just KILLING the deal !!" I don't think we have any of that. Even if we DO have a few isloated incidences of that happening, I cannot for a second believe that it has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the acceptance of Hybrids to the mainstream buyer... Anyone have any evidence to support that fear? |
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 01, 2004 10:33 am) Here's an indication. I cannot even consider hybrids until the battery life-span has been well proven in the real-world So far we have true stories of Priuses going 150K miles and being bought back by Toyota for evaluation... And this is supposed to make a sceptic feel comfortable ? What it makes me feel is that Toyota is surprised that the car made it to 150K miles, so they want to evaluate it. Causes one more concern about the product, rather than the other way around. Is there ANYWHERE a story of ONE SINGLE potential Hybrid buyer telling the salesperson, "Well, I love everything about the car, but that darn uncertainty about the life of the battery is just KILLING the deal !!" Fortunately there's no need for such a story. People actually know how they feel about hybrids so there's no need to go a salesman and tell him that story. Anyone have any evidence to support that fear? Is there enough evidence NOT to have that fear. Maybe in your mind there is, but certainly not in mine. |
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Replying to: zodiac2004 (Nov 01, 2004 6:10 pm) I think the only safe place to own a Prius is in CA. With the 150k mile mandate on emissions, Toyota has to stand behind the car and all parts that could keep it from being an AT=PZEV rated car. I still wonder if the state would come to your rescue if the car crapped out after a 125k miles.... |
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Replying to: zodiac2004 (Nov 01, 2004 6:10 pm) I will give you at least one instance of ONE SINGLE potential Hybrid buyer telling the salesman, I love everything sbout the Prius except the uncertainty of the battery life and the fact it is not avaialble with a standard transmission. --That person is ME! It really bothers me that the production of apparently all HSD Hybrids (Prius, RX400h, Highlander Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid) depend on on manufacturer Sanyo. If the traction battery did fail then you would have a wait to get it replaced or pay big bucks because of the shortness of supply. It also scares me that Toyota is so amazed that a car went 150,000 miles on a traction battery that they bought it back to tear it down and find out why and how. I guess I had the same trepidation with the turbos of the late 70's early 80's. Most of them went away except a few that fixed the bugs after 20-25 years. If you think there are unforeseen bugs that will not occur with the current HSD system , I think you are looking through rose colored glasses. Long term reliability is really unknown. Until we see sufficient aging and a representative statistic sample, we don't know what the true liveablity, long term relability of hybrid traction batteries are. One or two isolated cases of high mileage is not a good measure of the entire product. YMMV, MidCow |
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Nov 02, 2004 4:59 am) I will give you at least one instance of ONE SINGLE potential Hybrid buyer telling the salesman, I love everything sbout the Prius except the uncertainty of the battery life and the fact it is not avaialble with a standard transmission. --That person is ME! It really bothers me that the production of apparently all HSD Hybrids (Prius, RX400h, Highlander Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid) depend on on manufacturer Sanyo. If the traction battery did fail then you would have a wait to get it replaced or pay big bucks because of the shortness of supply. It also scares me that Toyota is so amazed that a car went 150,000 miles on a traction battery that they bought it back to tear it down and find out why and how. I guess I had the same trepidation with the turbos of the late 70's early 80's. Most of them went away except a few that fixed the bugs after 20-25 years. If you think there are unforeseen bugs that will not occur with the current HSD system , I think you are looking through rose colored glasses. Long term reliability is really unknown. Until we see sufficient aging and a representative statistic sample, we don't know what the true liveablity, long term relability of hybrid traction batteries are. One or two isolated cases of high mileage is not a good measure of the entire product. YMMV, MidCow Wow, hold up there. This post should be addressed to larsb, not me. I agree 100% with every word you have typed up here. Especially about the turbos. I think there are close similarities between turbos and hybrids. Both make smaller engines perform like bigger ones, although the green factor is to the hybrids' advantage. They have been around for 20-25 years but for the longest time many people regarded them as suspect, and some people still do. When you mess with powertrain technology it's going to be a very long time before it gets accepted as mainstream, and any failures in the meantime are going to have an amplified effect.
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Replying to: zodiac2004 (Nov 02, 2004 11:25 am) You are right , SORRY I read message #344 wrong. MidCow |
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"It also scares me that Toyota is so amazed that a car went 150,000 miles on a traction battery that they bought it back to tear it down and find out why and how." That is a majorly cynical assumption that Toyota was "amazed" that the car went that far - you do know of real world stories of Toyotas going 200K, 300K and more? Why would they be surprised? I think a more scientific curiousity as to how the new technology held up is more likely than a "holy cow". Thinking they were shocked that it lasted that long is kinda pessimistic. I myself had a 1980 Nissan 200SX that I got 323,000 miles out of before I traded it in for $300. So "shocked" that a modern Toyota made 150K miles? Not me, dudes. And there have been what now, 40-50,000 Hybrids sold in the USA? How many lost sales does anyone reasonably assign to "battery fears?" There are hybrids on the road in the USA with 60K and 70K miles on them - are the "batteries dying" left and right? No. The hybrid battery is just another major component like a transmission or anti-lock brake systems. I would bet my left arm that "Battery Fears" is NOT NOT NOT a major factor in the slow adoption of Hybrid cars. Higher cost, limited choices, an uneducated public, and the "lack of urgency" about the environment and use of fossil fuels are more likely factors. You just WATCH how Hybrids take off when there are 10-15 cars to choose from across multiple manufacturers and car types......and watch the news reports for any customer balking because of "battery fears." 
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