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#559 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [larsb]
Jul 17, 2007 (10:56 am)
I wonder if he charges less for the loss of comfort in the Prius vs a Full sized cab? I would expect a good break.
I don't think 400k kilometers in 3 years is a good indicator of battery life in the Prius. We are getting people with failed batteries in the 2001 Prius. The real test is the next 5-7 years when the average Prius user has had the vehicle 7-10 years. You can see a dramatic price drop when the used hybrids get close to 100k miles. No one wants to get stuck with an out of warranty traction battery.
Extreme cases are not an indication of what the average user can expect. Why did he give it back to Toyota unless is was wore out. Or do they keep giving him new ones to test for them?
#560 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [gagrice]
Jul 17, 2007 (11:57 am)
What "loss of comfort" are you talking about? Have you sat in the backseat of a Prius? I have. There is nothing "uncomfortable" about it.
My point about the 250,000 miles is that all these people who have said the Prius will not last that many miles - well, here is your first example of how wrong you will be.
He gave it back to Toyota probably for the same reason he gave his other one back to them - so they could test it. It's a great test case for their technology and they can learn what went wrong and can learn what (if any) components were doing extremely well or were on their final legs.
#561 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [larsb]
Jul 17, 2007 (3:42 pm)
I doubt it is as comfortable with the leg room of a Town Car.
Mileage is only one element in the life of a vehicle. My concern has always been years of trouble free service. Not miles. When I see the Prius II running around for 10 years without battery failures I will believe Toyota was correct. I would also like to know at what point of deterioration will Toyota feel compelled to replace a battery?
Batteries in laptops are subject to a different kind of abuse. deep discharge and fully recharged. They start losing their ability to give full service very soon after you buy them. Most are only warranted for 90 days.
#562 of 669 Toyota takes very good care of battery maintenance
Jul 18, 2007 (5:14 am)
Toyota's software does a very good job of maintaining the life of battery and extending it as far as possible with the available technology.
Nickel Metal Hydride Battery
World's top level input/output to weight ratio - light weight, long life.
In addition to being light-weight and having a long service life, the high power output nickel metal hydride (Ni-MH) battery used in the HYBRID SYNERGY DRIVE system provides a high input/output to weight ratio (power output in relation to weight). It does not require recharging from an outside power source, nor does it require periodical replacement.
The connection structure of the cells (individual batteries) has been redesigned and different materials are employed for the electrodes resulting in lower internal resistance. The battery unit integrated into Prius delivers approximately 540 W/kg, one of the highest input/output to weight ratios in the world.
Furthermore, the system maintains the battery charge at a constant level at all times by monitoring and computing the cumulative amount of discharge under acceleration, and recharging by regenerative braking or with surplus power under normal running conditions. This avoidance of excessive battery draining/recharging is another reason for the long life of the battery.
The battery cells are now connected to each other at two points to reduce internal resistance in the battery pack. The computer can use the generating force from all three MG units to recharge the batteries and is programmed to keep them between 80% and 40% charge. As the Toyota specialist says, this makes for a "happy battery".
It's not a Duracell battery, Gary. It's designed and implemented with long life in mind.
#563 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [gagrice]
Jul 18, 2007 (5:16 am)
gary says, "I doubt it is as comfortable with the leg room of a Town Car."
Well, you are in a short cab ride. You are not there to take a nap and relax and see how far you can stretch your legs.
No one I have heard about who owns or has ridden in a Prius thinks the rear leg room is inadequate for a normal-sized person not taking a nap.
#564 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [larsb]
Jul 18, 2007 (5:35 am)
I will check it out for myself. I have not found a mid sized car I would want to go far in. I would not ask someone else to do that either. You pay more for a Limo, you should pay less for a mid size cab. Why would they not want to pass the savings on to their customers?
#565 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [gagrice]
Jul 18, 2007 (6:25 am)
Gary, do you know of any normal sized, normal budget (middle class or below) person who rents a Limo because the legroom is too small in a Town Car?
People don't rent a Limo for legroom. Normal (i.e. not NBA players) people rent a Limo for a lot of reasons, but legroom is not one of them.
You are not renting a cab for the voluminous room inside. You are renting it to carry your stuff and you from point A to point B as quickly as possible. I've been in countries where all the cabs are small cars. The people there aren't clamoring for Town Cars.
There are hundreds if not thousands of hybrid cabs in the world in use right now. If they were inadequate, we would be seeing stories about cab companies reducing their hybrid fleet and going back to big ole gas guzzlers.
Have you seen any of those stories? No, I have not either. So it's not happening.
#566 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [larsb]
Jul 18, 2007 (2:41 pm)
I'm not sure of your point. Hybrid cabs are very rare. The only place I have seen the Prius used as a cab is in Victoria BC. There the trips are blocks long. Not 25 miles as mine from the airport to home. I always negotiate the price prior to setting foot in the cab. I don't like to be taken the long way home by a crooked cabby. By the same token I pick a cab that is big enough for my luggage and passengers. 99% of the cabs in San Diego are full sized cars or vans. The price I pay I expect comfort. It is usually $50 one way to my home. I would refuse to ride in a cab that my knees are against the back of the front seat. I don't care how much the cabby saved a year by owning a little hybrid.
If I was not so tight I could get a Limo for $75.
#567 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [gagrice]
Jul 18, 2007 (2:57 pm)
My points are:
1. Hybrid cabs are in use in a LOT of cities. The list includes at minimum Boston, San Fran, Chicago, New York, San Antonio, and as you mentioned Victoria BC.
2. No one is complaining (either cab riders or cab drivers or cab companies) that hybrid cabs are too small.
#568 of 669 Re: 400,000 km and no hybrid system failures [larsb]
Jul 18, 2007 (3:17 pm)
From me a cabby with a Prius gets 25 bucks not a penny more. They can take or leave it.