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The Great Hybrid Battery Debate

669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM

You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

What is this discussion about? Hybrid Cars

Outline

Messages Page 6 of 68: 1; ...; 3; 4; 5; 6; 7; 8; 9; ...; 68; Prev; Next; Last

#44 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [rfruth] by gagrice Jul 24, 2004 (4:34 pm)
Replying to: rfruth (Jul 24, 2004 4:25 pm) On dumb chargers. I just changed the battery in a year old Panasonic cordless. It was Nicad and one cell would not hold a charge for more than a few minutes. Replies to this message: john1701a (Jul 24, 2004 5:19 pm) john1701a (Jul 24, 2004 7:06 pm) gagrice (Jul 25, 2004 7:30 am) usbseawolf2000 (Jul 25, 2004 7:16 pm) and 1 more... eaa (Mar 22, 2006 7:42 pm) imidazol97 (Mar 22, 2006 7:48 pm)
#45 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by john1701a Jul 24, 2004 (5:14 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 3:45 pm) Poor charge management is why most rechargable batteries suffer shortened life. If your cell-phone shutdown at 40% and refused to power back up until you plugged it in, the battery would last dramatically longer. But instead, users drain the thing to totally dead on a regular basis. That's a huge difference from the way a system like HSD in Prius works. JOHN
#46 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by john1701a Jul 24, 2004 (5:19 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 4:34 pm) NiCd rechargable batteries were inherently problematic. They suffered from memory-effect, were environmentally dangerous, and they could hold not as much power as NiMH. That's why NiCd is considered long outdated technology. JOHN
#47 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by john1701a Jul 24, 2004 (7:06 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 4:34 pm) Another common hybrid battery misconception is that all the electricity feeding the motor comes from the battery-pack. While that is true for a "mild" hybrid, it is not for a "full" hybrid like Prius. In fact, 100% of the time the engine is providing thrust to the wheels it is also powering the generator-motor. The resulting electricity is immediately used by the thrust-motor. Preventing the battery-pack from being used as much obviously helps to extend the life of it. JOHN Replies to this message: gagrice (Jul 25, 2004 7:30 am) usbseawolf2000 (Jul 25, 2004 7:16 pm) gagrice (Jul 25, 2004 8:39 pm) eaa (Mar 22, 2006 7:42 pm) imidazol97 (Mar 22, 2006 7:48 pm)
#48 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [john1701a] by gagrice Jul 25, 2004 (7:30 am)
Replying to: john1701a (Jul 24, 2004 7:06 pm) Question, I read an article that says the hybrid batteries are only charged by the regenerative action of slowing and braking. The writer said this caused problems on long uphill grades on a cross country test run. Is that true? Replies to this message: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 25, 2004 7:16 pm) gagrice (Jul 25, 2004 8:39 pm)
#49 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by usbseawolf2000 Jul 25, 2004 (7:16 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 25, 2004 7:30 am) Becareful when someone use a general word "hybrid" since not all design were created equal. HSD can split power from ICE to generate electricity while climbing hills, assuming the hill is not steep enough to have spare power from the ICE. 04 Prius battery ECU will not let the battery discharge below 40% SOC. The rest of 60% of the 1.31 kWH battery can provide 28 hp for 135 seconds. If you climb the hill at 60mph and the hill is so steep that the battery provides all 28hp for 135 seconds, Prius can trouble 2.25 miles before the battery SOC get to 40%. It is when the turtle icon appears. If the hill is not as steep and Prius main ECU request only 14hp from the battery, Prius can go up 4.5 mile long hill. That's a very long hill! I know you had bad experience with batteries. Let me give you another graph which shows the Cylinder D-shape batteries(Used in Japanese Prius) and Prismatic batteries(Used in US Classic Prius). They tested over 180,000 miles for Cylinder and 150,000 miles for Prismatic. Note that 04 Prius batteries has less Internal Resistence than last generation Prismatic modules. Basically, these batteries can keep going and going and going ..... Dennis Replies to this message: gagrice (Jul 25, 2004 8:39 pm)
#50 of 669 Re: 8 year battery???? [usbseawolf2000] by gagrice Jul 25, 2004 (8:39 pm)
Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 25, 2004 7:16 pm) That makes sense and goes along with what the writer was saying about the Prius. They were in the Rockies and he was trying to pass on a long uphill stretch. He could not feel the electric motor kicking in. He probably already discharged to the 40% level. So it was just the ICE which was not enough power to go around. I am not sure how fast he was going. I can't find the article now. I doubt it is that important. I am sure that the hybrid has forced vast improvements in battery technology. The last of the electric cars were also instrumental in improving NiMH batteries. I hope they are as long lived as Toyota is predicting. Thanks Dennis
#51 of 669 Re Improvements in battery tech by stevedebi Jul 26, 2004 (9:10 am)
No, the Prius doesn't push the envelope in battery technology; it just makes sure the batteries don't get over charged or fully depleted. Nothing new there. It uses the plain old batteries, several years old technology... Replies to this message: john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 9:19 am) stevedebi (Jul 26, 2004 1:24 pm) john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 1:27 pm) john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 1:36 pm) usbseawolf2000 (Jul 26, 2004 1:47 pm) and 1 more... usbseawolf2000 (Jul 26, 2004 1:41 pm)
#52 of 669 Re: Re Improvements in battery tech [stevedebi] by john1701a Jul 26, 2004 (9:19 am)
Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 26, 2004 9:10 am) Actually, it depends what you mean by "technology". The NiMH itself within the Prius battery-pack is record-breaking "technology". The energy-density is significantly higher than just "plain old batteries". Other NiMH simply cannot compare. JOHN Replies to this message: stevedebi (Jul 26, 2004 1:24 pm) john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 1:27 pm) john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 1:36 pm) usbseawolf2000 (Jul 26, 2004 1:47 pm) gagrice (Jul 26, 2004 2:09 pm)
#53 of 669 Re: Re Improvements in battery tech [john1701a] by stevedebi Jul 26, 2004 (1:24 pm)
Replying to: john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 9:19 am) OK, please tell us how the Prius HiMH is different technology from "regular" NiMh.... Do you have data to back up your "energy density" statement? Replies to this message: john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 1:27 pm) john1701a (Jul 26, 2004 1:36 pm) usbseawolf2000 (Jul 26, 2004 1:47 pm) gagrice (Jul 26, 2004 2:09 pm)

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