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The Great Hybrid Battery Debate

669 messages,  Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM

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#37 of 669
Different stuff by stevedebi
Jul 22, 2004 (10:59 am)
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John,
I don't doubt that the battery software controls account for gradual depeletion of the battery pack capabilities. If they didn't account for this, they would be idiots, because the packs are going to deplete over time.
 
However, that doesn't mean the algorythm accounts for mixed old and new batteries. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But (as was pointed out above), Toyota also would have no reason to want users to be able to replace a single battery, since they would get the return business of a new battery pack.
 
The Prius depends on those battery packs. I have no doubt that there is capability to run with some battery modules out, but it is intended as a short term use, until the pack can be fixed. In general, the concept of messing around (in any fashion) with the batteries is unsound in a car that requires electricity to run.
#38 of 669
Re: Battery [redly_one] by gagrice
Jul 22, 2004 (12:24 pm)
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Replying to: redly_one (Jul 20, 2004 9:41 pm)

Very good point. I remember when radio control cars were the rage. You could change out one cell in the 6 cell battery pack, but it was never able to reach the voltage and current carrying capacity as a full new fresh set that were matched for peak voltage. No two cells are identical so to get a great battery you take the cells that will peak the highest voltage to build a super battery. Those were Nicad not NiMH. They try to tell you that NiMH does not have memory but I can prove otherwise with your laptop computer if it has not gone to the superior Lithium Ion batteries.
#39 of 669
Re: LiIon and HiMh by stevedebi
Jul 23, 2004 (12:36 pm)
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The laptops and other small applications are different. The NiMh will gradually deplete it's capabilities if it is compeletely discharged. Toyota insists that since the Prius batteries don't fully carge or discharge, they will last for 10's of thousands of cycles.
 
Considering the 8 year, 150K warranty, I bet they are correct.
#40 of 669
Re: LiIon and HiMh [stevedebi] by gagrice
Jul 24, 2004 (12:24 pm)
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 23, 2004 12:36 pm)

I wonder if they willingly put out that warranty, or were they coerced by CA regulators? I know with lead acid car batteries you can almost bet they will die the week after the warranty expires.
#41 of 669
8 year battery???? by gagrice
Jul 24, 2004 (3:45 pm)
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On battery life expectancy: NOTHING with batteries that consumers own has an 8-year battery life.
This was part of the debate that forced Toyota to warranty the Hybrid batteries for 8 years 150k miles. You may find it interesting as I did. This has been my skepticism from the start. Although with 8 years and 150k miles I would not fret over buying a hybrid.
 
http://solstice.crest.org/discussion/ev/current/msg00392.html
#42 of 669
Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by rfruth
Jul 24, 2004 (4:25 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 3:45 pm)

Of corse nothing manages the batteries like a hybrid or costs like one either. Maybe if a cordless phone was $ 500.00 the battery would be managed better heck some $ 200.00 bicycle lightning systems that use Ni-MH batteries come with dumb chargers (they don't check the temp of the battery or for any existing charge, plug it in and the charger goes full tilt boogie even if it means cooking the battery) - but as you know auto manufacturers would offer zero warranty if they could, why risk warranty claims, for return business ?
#43 of 669
Re: 8 year battery???? [rfruth] by gagrice
Jul 24, 2004 (4:32 pm)
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Replying to: rfruth (Jul 24, 2004 4:25 pm)

If I put 150k on a vehicle in under 8 years I would have no problem buying a Hybrid. Just get rid of it before the warranty is up. If batteries don't get hot in the charging stage and are not let go all the way down, they should last a good long time. I have a Dell Inspiron 7000 that is 5 years old and the battery is still good. I have a one year old Inspiron 4100 that won't run 15 minutes on the battery.
#44 of 669
Re: 8 year battery???? [rfruth] by gagrice
Jul 24, 2004 (4:34 pm)
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Replying to: rfruth (Jul 24, 2004 4:25 pm)

On dumb chargers. I just changed the battery in a year old Panasonic cordless. It was Nicad and one cell would not hold a charge for more than a few minutes.
#45 of 669
Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by john1701a
Jul 24, 2004 (5:14 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 3:45 pm)

Poor charge management is why most rechargable batteries suffer shortened life.
 
If your cell-phone shutdown at 40% and refused to power back up until you plugged it in, the battery would last dramatically longer. But instead, users drain the thing to totally dead on a regular basis. That's a huge difference from the way a system like HSD in Prius works.
 
JOHN
#46 of 669
Re: 8 year battery???? [gagrice] by john1701a
Jul 24, 2004 (5:19 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 4:34 pm)

NiCd rechargable batteries were inherently problematic. They suffered from memory-effect, were environmentally dangerous, and they could hold not as much power as NiMH. That's why NiCd is considered long outdated technology.
 
JOHN

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