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The Great Hybrid Battery Debate

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#31 of 669 Other interesting Prius facts by redly_one Jul 20, 2004 (9:50 pm)
In a 2001 Prius, if the state of charge of the batteries was sufficient, the car would run full electric mode in reverse.   We tested this quite extensively one night in a parking lot and monitored current/voltage/SOC/temp.   The thing that I found interesting is that I could mush on the accelerator (in reverse mind you) and get going as fast as I could, and the highest current draw from the batteries we would see was around 30A. Which isn't so amazing when you convert it to HP (~24 HP). But at he time I was green and thought WOW.   There were 3 guys in the car, each weighing ~200LBS, plus our test equipment.   Oh, those were the days!!
#32 of 669 Re: Battery [redly_one] by john1701a Jul 21, 2004 (7:19 am)
Replying to: redly_one (Jul 20, 2004 9:41 pm) > Just to clarify...when one module goes bad in a Prius HV battery pack, you will need to replace the entire pack.   That is a direct contradiction to everything ever published about those modules and their controlers, both technical and real-world occurences.   Please back your wild claim with a detailed explanation.   JOHN
#33 of 669 by Sylvia STAFF Jul 21, 2004 (8:27 am)
If someone has data they are sharing, let's not attack them. You may not agree with it or believe it, but it doesn't give anyone the right to be rude about it.
#34 of 669 Well, there are the standard warnings by stevedebi Jul 21, 2004 (11:08 am)
Every battery powered device I've ever seen carries the warning not to mix battery types, and to replace all the batteries at the same time. So the Prius is different? Maybe, but unlikely.   This is not to say one CANNOT replace only the bad batteries, but I doubt that the vehicle computers are programmed for this eventuality, since the variables are enormous (one variable in the total output for each battery that is new in an old stack). Most likely there would be some unusual warning messages from the computer, the severity would be based on how many old vs new, how bad the old ones are, etc.   And I seriously doubt that you will ever get a Toyota engineer to say replacing some batteries in an old pack is acceptable. They will tell you to replace the whole pack...
#35 of 669 Re: Battery [redly_one] by rfruth Jul 21, 2004 (1:19 pm)
Replying to: redly_one (Jul 20, 2004 9:41 pm) Hey thats great you've tested the Prius traction battery tell us more can you ? And I also doubt that you will ever get anyone at Toyota to say replacing some batteries in an old pack is good enough. They want all the money they can get.
#36 of 669 module auto-disable by john1701a Jul 21, 2004 (2:30 pm)
Then look at it from this perspective:   It has *ALREADY* been proven that bad modules can completely (and automatically) be ignored without any negative affect on the pack itself. Then rather than multi-state support, you would have new-only support... which is another method of module replacement without the need for the entire pack.   Now you have two examples to disprove.   JOHN
#37 of 669 Different stuff by stevedebi Jul 22, 2004 (10:59 am)
John, I don't doubt that the battery software controls account for gradual depeletion of the battery pack capabilities. If they didn't account for this, they would be idiots, because the packs are going to deplete over time.   However, that doesn't mean the algorythm accounts for mixed old and new batteries. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But (as was pointed out above), Toyota also would have no reason to want users to be able to replace a single battery, since they would get the return business of a new battery pack.   The Prius depends on those battery packs. I have no doubt that there is capability to run with some battery modules out, but it is intended as a short term use, until the pack can be fixed. In general, the concept of messing around (in any fashion) with the batteries is unsound in a car that requires electricity to run.
#38 of 669 Re: Battery [redly_one] by gagrice Jul 22, 2004 (12:24 pm)
Replying to: redly_one (Jul 20, 2004 9:41 pm) Very good point. I remember when radio control cars were the rage. You could change out one cell in the 6 cell battery pack, but it was never able to reach the voltage and current carrying capacity as a full new fresh set that were matched for peak voltage. No two cells are identical so to get a great battery you take the cells that will peak the highest voltage to build a super battery. Those were Nicad not NiMH. They try to tell you that NiMH does not have memory but I can prove otherwise with your laptop computer if it has not gone to the superior Lithium Ion batteries.
#39 of 669 Re: LiIon and HiMh by stevedebi Jul 23, 2004 (12:36 pm)
The laptops and other small applications are different. The NiMh will gradually deplete it's capabilities if it is compeletely discharged. Toyota insists that since the Prius batteries don't fully carge or discharge, they will last for 10's of thousands of cycles.   Considering the 8 year, 150K warranty, I bet they are correct. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jul 24, 2004 12:24 pm)
#40 of 669 Re: LiIon and HiMh [stevedebi] by gagrice Jul 24, 2004 (12:24 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 23, 2004 12:36 pm) I wonder if they willingly put out that warranty, or were they coerced by CA regulators? I know with lead acid car batteries you can almost bet they will die the week after the warranty expires.

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