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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
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The great battery debate is on! What is the replacement cost? Is there a replacement need? How does this impact the total cost of ownership over the lifetime of the vehicle? |
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Panasonic Prismatic HV NiMH battery used in 2004 Prius is rated for about 10,000 recharge cycles until capacity(amount of charge that hold) is reduced to about 80%(1.2KW) of the original(1.5KW). I would assume, you can still drive the car with 1.2KW battery but efficiency(mpg) would be less.  Panasonic Prismatic HV NiMH battery module.  Typical consumer electronic cylinderical NiMH battery. Note: Recharge cycle is only 500. Dennis |
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The latest generation NiMH battery used in 2004 Pruis are prismatic(rectangle) shape. It has higher power and energy density.  Prismatic Module Spec: Nominal Voltage: 7.2V Nominal Capacity: 6.5Ah Speceific Power: 1300W/kg Speceific Energy: 46Wh/kg Weight: 1040g Cylindrical Module Spec: Nominal Voltage: 7.2V Nominal Capacity: 6.0Ah Speceific Power: 800W/kg Speceific Energy: 40Wh/kg Weight: 1090g Dennis |
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First, let me clear up the vague use of "battery". There are many types of batteries. The most polluting types are lead-acid, Nickel Cadmium(Ni-CD)and button(Mercury) batteries. Lead, Cadmium and Mercury are heavy metal that pollutes the environment if they make contact with human directly or indirectly. Ni-Mh battery used in Prius is much more environmental friendly. Nickel and Metal Hydride are not heavy metal or toxic. Nickel can be found in 5 cents literally. There is still the need to recycle Ni-Mh batteries because Nickel recovered from recycling pays for itself! This is not true for other batteries. Dennis |
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2004 Prius has 1.5 KWH(kilowatts/hour) battery and Civic Hybrid has about 1 KWH battery. How big is HV battery capacity compare to pure electric vehicle(EV) battery? Toyota Rav4 EV had 28 KWH EV NiMH battery to achieve 87 miles range when travelling at 60mph. That's more than eighteen times larger than Prius battery. In order for Rav4 EV to have the same range of hybrids(700miles), Rav4 EV will need to have 225 KWH battery! To be fair, acknowledge that Rav4 is a heavier SUV and Prius is a mid-size sedan. Dennis
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jun 10, 2004 6:08 pm) The main reason that the voltage is inverted and increaste to 500 volts is because smaller wires can be used becuase the current is less. Powrer= current times volt times the angle between voltage and current (o for resistive, +/_ for inductive or capcitive) assume resistive. For example if the mote is a 2.5 Kilowatthour motor thatt menas the instantaeous power is 2500 watts or 2500 amp hours. If that is deliver by 12 volts then a current of 208.3 amperes while the same motor running 500 volts would only require a current of 5 amperes. The smaller the amperes or current the smaller the wire is need and the less loss due to impedence. P.S. - Were you awre the Prius can only go in reverse via the eletric motors. The ICE can not supply reverse power. Does that mean the Prius is a mild or soft hybrid in reverse?
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Jun 11, 2004 6:45 am) Yes, I am aware. Prius ICE can not supply power to the wheel directly but it can power indirectly by generating electricity which then powers the main 50kw motor. Therefore, in reverse, Prius acts as a serial hybrid. Remember, the electricity generated from MG1 does not have to go through the battery, HSD can route power directly to the 50kw MG2. Dennis |
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The Rochester Hills-based firm said it and Cobasys LLC, its manufacturing joint venture, had entered into a settlement agreement with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Panasonic EV Energy Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. The settlement was reached through arbitration. As part of the agreement, Cobasys and Panasonic will cross-license each other on current and future patents to avoid litigation. http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw100650_20040707.htm Let the number increase and the price fall !!!! Dennis
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 07, 2004 7:02 pm) I seriously doubt the price of NiMH batteries will get significantly cheaper. Batteries of all kinds have gone up in price no matter what the rest of the Electronics market is doing. The only competition is generic batteries that have proven themselves inferior to name brand. At least in all the ones I have bought. If you are counting on the price going down by the time you need to replace the batteries, I would be real surprised if they are. Hopefully the generous warranty will take care of all your battery replacements.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 07, 2004 7:45 pm) Consumer electronic AA Nimh rechargable battery prices has been going down since it was introduced. Not only the price, the capacity had gone up as well. When they came out they had 1500 mah rating(higher is better). Now, they have 2400 mah batteries for less than what 1500 mah used to cost! Dennis
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