Last post on Nov 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM
You are in the Land Rover
What is this discussion about?
Land Rover LR3, SUV
#2623 of 4548 Re: recent posts regarding LR3 problems [kandg]
Sep 16, 2005 (7:10 am)
"The recall is for a know and experienced problem with the fumes of a refilling gas tank igniting and causing the car to catch on fire. They noticed the problem when someone, WHILE refueling their car, WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING, and temperatures well above 90*F, the fumes ignited and the cars were destroyed"
"I think that says it all folks "
This is not true as stated in previous threads and on The NHTSA.
Please see the actual recall information and stop spreading errornous information.
Make : LAND ROVER Model : LR3 Year : 2005
Manufacturer : LAND ROVER
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 05V376000 Mfg's Report Date : AUG 26, 2005
Component: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 17263
SOME SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES MAY HAVE FUEL TANKS THAT CONTAIN AN INTERNAL BREATHER PIPE THAT WAS NOT MADE TO SPECIFICATION. THIS COULD RESULT IN EXCESSIVE SWELLING AND CRACKING OF A GROMMET AND SUBSEQUENT DETACHMENT OF THE BREATHER PIPE FROM A CONNECTOR TUBE. WHEN THE FUEL LEVEL IN THE TANK IS ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE DETACHED JOINT, FUEL MAY THEN ENTER THE BREATHER PIPE.
THE VEHICLE MAY EXHIBIT MIL ILLUMINATION, FUEL ODOR, DRIVABILITY CONCERNS SUCH AS HESITATION, MISFIRE, STALLING, ROUGH RUNNING, OR DIFFICULTY IN STARTING. IF THE AMOUNT OF FUEL FLOWING INTO THE BREATHER PIPE REACHES THE VAPOR CANISTER AND EXCEEDS ITS CAPACITY, THE EXCESS FUEL MAY BE DISCHARGED ONTO THE GROUND. FUEL LEAKAGE IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE COULD RESULT IN A FIRE.
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FUEL TANKS. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OCTOBER 14, 2005. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT LAND ROVER AT 1-800-637-6837.
LAND ROVER RECALL NO. B016. CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.
This says it could start a fire. Does anyone see where is say 90 degrees ? Does anyone see where it says during refilling?
Then again if it is on the internet in any form it must be true.....
#2624 of 4548 Re: recent posts regarding LR3 problems [grendalfly]
Sep 16, 2005 (7:38 am)
It seems to many, it is dumb to be filling ones tank in high temperatures with the engine running, but there's more to this. Most of these problems started in Dubai and UAE, where temps above 90 are the norm. In addition, it would be rare for a native of either country(read rich) to fill one's own tank. That would be left to others, while the driver remained in the vehicle. Since air conditioning is a must, the engine would have to be running.
Please don't assume that what appears abnormal to some, is necessarily wrong, or even crazy. Just when you think that says it all...
#2625 of 4548 Re: recent posts regarding LR3 problems [paxton]
Sep 16, 2005 (9:09 am)
Please don't assume that what appears abnormal to some, is necessarily wrong, or even crazy.
I don't perceive it as matters of protocol, procedure or custom. This just appears to be lack of good common sense. No matter what part of the world you're in.
If i remember my basic physics properly...(it's been a while )
Vapour and Flash fires from fumes require spark. Explosions (in this case gasoline fumes) are caused by the buildup of pressure due to expansion and the resultant rapid release conversion into kinetic energy by combustion initiated by ignition.
#2626 of 4548 Re: New Owner - Rear Climate, Etc. [jbmjr]
Sep 16, 2005 (9:17 am)
Final update - 8 days in dealer service. Swapped out front passenger seat for new front passenger seat either because they could not figure out problem or part was back ordered (I can't figure out from the service receipt). Supposedly fixed climate control - rear control is now working and heat does seem to be coming out, but the temp setting is clearly off (setting it at 70 or 68 degrees is just not as chilled as it was, but maybe it was just so off in the first place...).
At any rate, that is it. I am off now, not to post until I see what appears to be the inevitable fuel tank/leak issues arising!
#2627 of 4548 Re: recent posts regarding LR3 problems [kandg]
Sep 17, 2005 (1:05 pm)
Just a lurker here. However, I had to comment on this poster's allegations regarding fuel octane.
I think you need to research octane yourself first before hurling stones at someone else's lack of knowledge. The octane of a fuel relates to its tendency to pre-ignite, and is used in higher performance engines that create combinations of heat and pressure in the cylinder that may lead to pre-ignition. It has absolutely nothing to do with starting,idling, or economy. If this new LR motor is like many newer ones, its knock sensor will retard the timing, throttle, or other engine parameters when it detects engine knock to prevent damage to the engine. This is going to be on the top end of performance, though, or when the engine is hot and under a heavy load. For the vast majority of people, they will never notice the few HP lost to lower octane. Despite all of the bull crap you read on these boards about how people gained 5 mpg by switching to premium, the real scientists have proven that higher octane stops pre-ignition, and that's all.
The other issue I feel compelled to comment on, somewhat unrelated to this post, is the amount of effort by some LR owners, and other owners of vehicles with not-so-good reliability records, to dismiss those with problems as "trolls," uninformed, FUD spreaders, or other name calling. Individual owners do generally own one vehicle of a kind, which is not a statistical sample. Land Rover, as a brand, has been toward the bottom of statistical reliability. Justify your individual luck however you want, but statistically, one buying a Land Rover is rolling the dice, relatively speaking.
That's fine with me, though. We all can buy whatever we want (or can afford) in America. If the positive aspects of the vehicle are more meaningful than the issues, then you will enjoy the car just like a Corvette owner. I, for one, bought a Land Cruiser because I could not stand the issues faced by many on this board. It also has issues, but reliability is typically not one of them.
I suspect that I will be labeled as spreading FUD, but this is my $0.02. With some facts about octane.
#2629 of 4548 Land Rover replaced my '05 LR3 HSE with an '06
Sep 17, 2005 (5:12 pm)
An update to my previous post...After 30 days at the dealership and only 900 miles my '05 LR3 HSE was replaced by an '06 LR3 HSE with more features. I've had ther new vehicle for 2 weeks with no problems (yet). I HAVE THE '06 BLUETOOTH OPTION and it works like a dream. The vehicle detects my cellphone within 30 seconds of starting the ignition. The radio display flashes "bluetooth detected" and when my cellphone rings the radio goes to silent, the ring goes through the radio speakers, and the caller id number displays on the radio display. The phone on and off buttons are on the steering wheel. The best feature is the voice recognition integration which allows me to say "phone: dial name" the british lady says: "name please"...then i can say "mom cell phone" and it dials based on the number I have assigned in the phone directory. Everyone is completely impressed by this feature!! I also enjoy the fact that the forward parking assist has found it's way on to the '06. I love my '06 replacement vehicle!
#2630 of 4548 Re: recent posts regarding LR3 problems [serranot]
Sep 17, 2005 (8:24 pm)
Just a lurker here.
You are a lurker no longer - welcome aboard and thanks for your insight!
#2631 of 4548 Re: Land Rover replaced my '05 LR3 HSE with an '06 [xander93]
Sep 17, 2005 (9:39 pm)
Curious: Do you miss the seat lumbar adjustment your '05 had? Well, maybe you didn't have it long enough to even notice it disappeared in '06.
#2632 of 4548 Re: recent posts regarding LR3 problems [serranot]
Sep 18, 2005 (1:39 am)
It has absolutely nothing to do with starting,idling, or economy. If this new LR motor is like many newer ones, its knock sensor will retard the timing, throttle, or other engine parameters when it detects engine knock to prevent damage to the engine
Thanks for the insight Serranot and here's my response.
The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the spark plug, it causes knocking in the engine. Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like "regular" 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting.
Perhaps i should have been more explicit but i do understand what the rating figure means and how it will affect the performance of a motor. I believe if you look for it, you'll find at least one engineer who will state that the fuel octane requirement listed in a hi-po motor in standard (re: non racing) consumer grade produced motors (such as a sports car etc) has the premium fuel requirement to optimize performance and economy of the engine. They will further state that the knock sensors should compensate when the motor, for lack of a better term, "recognizes" the lower octane. The sales literature usu. says nothing due to the assumption that the consumer will certainly follow the guideline regarding fuel grade.
What both sources do NOT tell you is the compression ratio of your engine determines the octane rating of the gas you must use in the car. So it follows..higher compression, higher octane/per given engine weight etc.
My stance on the issue is simply, a lot of motorists will try to "save" a few pennies which i'm sure lately in the states is the norm, by filling up with regular grade fuel instead of premium.
Now with that bit of information, from personal experience using various octane grades WILL affect the areas of performance and economy although for some not necessarily all areas as listed in my previous post. This isn't in all cars however, (my mx5 na miata obviously will have no advantage using a higher octane but my z32 300zx suffers (hesitation when starting and rough idle) when using lower octane. My e46 bimmers also suffer from using lower octane and have experienced on more than one occasion a very rough ignition using lower octane as an experiment. The problem immediately resolves after flushing the fuel or running it out completely (usu. after 2-3 tanks) and returning to required octane.
Am i wrong in observing that "retarding timing, throttle and other engine parameters" will not affect the nominal performance aspect of a motor?