Last post on May 06, 2013 at 12:09 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
What is this discussion about?
Ford Focus, Ford Focus SVT, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan, Wagon
#282 of 471 Re: online brochure [m6user]
Aug 04, 2008 (7:33 am)
The dealers get (PAID) from Ford for all cash incentives and coupons! dont let them fool you! When I used my cash incentives and coupon they were all honerd!. Ford looks at the requested incentives and lets the dealer know instantly if they are approved! as for the $750.00 brochure coupon, it clearly states on the coupon that the $750.00 coupon can be used on top of all other incentives! If the dealer wont allow you to use the coupon or cash incentives you qualify for its because the dealer is trying to pocket them for themselves! Remember, most of the roomers about car salesmen are true! you have to stick to your guns when dealing with them! The profit margin on the 2008 Ford Focus is razor thin and they want to get all your money!
#283 of 471 Re: online brochure [matsukes]
Aug 04, 2008 (10:28 am)
Factory rebates direct to customer are illegal to pocket and will put the dealer in hot water in no time. (unless signed over to them in paperwork)
Coupons, military discount, college grad discount, loyalty discount, conquest (non-loyalty?) discount, college dropout discount, Texas horsemen's assoc discount, recently divorced discount, humanoid life form with a pulse discount are marketing gimmicks. Many times they are mentioned in the ad to generate some flow and limit response. Most have disclaimers out how dealer participation may vary. A few actually represent cash from the manufacturer but they are in the minority. Also make no doubt some get just as good or better deals without mentioning or technically qualifying for none.
A coupon may be issued with a blanket statement that it can be used on top of any other incentives which themselves state dealer participation may vary (usually based on enough profit, whether dealer wants to, ). There are sometimes so many gimmicks out there the factory (or dealership) usually has enough loopholes to keep someone from (legally) stacking too many.
Rack up a deal at invoice -grad-military-loyalty and then drop the 750 coupon on them and demand they subtract it from the contracted price and they may choose not to participate in the grad rebate. (on the basis of not enough profit for them if they participate now, or their general participatiory policy is to honor no more discounts than 15% of the cars msrp ... etc) ., Or only honor the grad rebate in the addition of factory coupons with a special "pro pack" ($1000 for vin etch and wheel locks) Perfectly legitimate unless a proveable discriminatory pattern based on race or sex. On the other hand if your deal is towards the end of the month and the dealer is the one out of 10 or so usually hurting each month your threatening to walk without your price may produce $750 (or more) out of their profit. (not reimbursed by ford, perhaps without the coupon even)
750 off msrp or invoice and another 500 grad credit for a car that will only move adequately for 3000 off msrp (2000 under invoice) after true factory rebates for example is nothing but a marketing gimmick. No money changes hands for the dealer to glom onto from ford no matter what because thats above their (true) cost anyway .Some yutzes may get a better price from another (or the same) dealer without the coupon or the gimmicks.
Virtually none of the coupons, military discounts, college, x-plan (local co discounts) loyalty, conquest (non-loyalty) represent any cash from ford at all below dealer cost in the way factory to customer rebates do. (heavily regulated, big do-do if tried to divert from customer from both Ford and atty general)
Someone could easily drive away from a dealer with no gimmicks with a better price than someone with msrp-dealer disc-loyalty disc-military-college dropout-dogowner discount -draftdoger (volunteer dodger?) disc. (this last gimmick is only popular in a few congressional districts if you know what I mean)
#284 of 471 Re: online brochure [jfritsch]
Aug 04, 2008 (12:18 pm)
Thanks for the explanation and appreciate the humor. If the manufacturer(Ford for example) has the rebate/discount whatever listed on their corporate website wouldn't that be money directly from Ford? For example, if you negotiated a decent price and then mentioned being in the military, could the dealer just say "sorry I've already given you enough off already and I'm not going to honor that military discount that Ford advertises"? I'm not saying a dealer would do this(heaven forbid) but could they without repercussions?
#285 of 471 Re: online brochure [m6user]
Aug 04, 2008 (1:59 pm)
Well, decent price is relative. The factory to consumer rebate will be coughed up no matter what since it is no benefit to them not to. (They can't keep it, and others will throw it in and underbid them, ) This is actual factory cash usually signed over to the dealership for ease. Rebate implies strict definition and legalities. A "coupon" is different. Many of the other marketing measures (including military)explain "dealership participation may vary" see for details. Could be he says that price already contained your military discount (or none if participation may vary). If you note how could he know you were in the military, he may mention everyone is getting a college grad, 1st time buyer, loyalty, military rebate etc and you assuredly got one of them (this was their participation policy, of that hour when you bought it) This may have changed immediately afterward signing , as management must act quickly these days to remain effective. With a 2000 or so factory rebate, all the money off from msrp to invoice (dealer discount), some more hidden factory cash thrown in they can say several credits military, -dealer discount etc was included. They just don't always itemize them.
Others have extended military rebates to sons, distant relatives, neighbors or veterans of ANY armed forces US, german SS, NVA, Great great niece of Techumseh Sherman. viewers or people who've heard of "Saving private Ryan". So flexible and progressive is their participation policy to the Military discount for US servicemen mentioned on ads and websites that they have expanded it to all fighting men! Or folks who've thought about it once.
Really the Factory coupon thing isn't that common but not unheard of. I think we had a post on the issue a few pages back. I really don't know if you send it in or call the Ford district manager what can happen. The coupon from Ford seems unusual. Seems we didn''t think much then . If it says must be presented upon negotiation and you did, theoretically they could honor the coupon and not participate in some other(s) grad, loyalty, their own dealership discount ($ from msrp to invoice that disappears for anyone with IQ>60) or the military program.
If you search back, since these are big companies and they have been doing this a long time their bases are covered. I don't know if your deal is done but regardless, something like this requires F.lee bailey on retainer for 10000;s. And is usually silly.
Ironically the most effective measure you have to put pressure on them is to mention the coupon to the sales manager, how it just doesn't seem right and how you would love to give a glowing report on your customer experience in any surveys the factory sends you, however this experience would produce a lot of negative answers. And if you don't recieve a form, you will request one. These survey forms have become more and more important in the last decade, for many dealerships, and if this one is marginal.... Assure him a resolution will result in a glowing report, A 6 yr 100000 mi bumper to bumper warranty agreement for the coupon and $150 perhaps, you even get a warranty sale here.
A Focus is (or should be) about a $5000 off msrp vehicle. A 08 19000 focus will hardly trade in for 12000 in 12 months. Anything a lot less than that and the mazda3, Hyundai Sonata and Elantra, and others mentioned the last few months become far more attractive.
If you got about 5000 off work the manager a little hard. If you got 3500 off you need to be complaining to the district and dealeship sales manager about your displeasing buying experience (which will guarantee mostly poor survey results ), Fords misleading choice of promotion and a little matter of a 7year/100k mi service plan (worth about 700 or so I think) and a 600 or 1300 check.
#286 of 471 Re: online brochure [matsukes]
Aug 05, 2008 (6:32 am)
Hey Matsukes, can you help me out on who to talk to at Kunes Ford.....
Thanks again, Dan and Michelle
#287 of 471 Reminder...
by kyfdx HOST
Aug 05, 2008 (7:28 am)
You may include the dealership name, city and state in your post. Please do not post names of salespeople, telephone numbers, email addresses, or other contact information.
Aug 05, 2008 (10:35 am)
Hey Matsukes, Can you e-mail me the name of your saleperson at Kunes Ford...
#289 of 471 Re: online brochure [jfritsch]
Aug 06, 2008 (4:44 pm)
need some help....looking at 08 s focus auto only. msrp 16,270....am thinking of offering 12,000 otd including doc and ttl. is this realistic given the total rebate is 2000 if i finance w ford. thanks
#290 of 471 Re: online brochure [bruin4ever]
Aug 09, 2008 (7:15 am)
It will be dificult for anyone to give an opinion on your "OTD" price, since sales tax can vary from 0 to about 10%, depending on your location and there are also fairly significant differences title and license fees among the states.
#291 of 471 Anyone know if this 08 Focus is a good deal?
Aug 11, 2008 (9:55 am)
I'm working with a dealer for an '08 SE Focus and here's what they're telling me so far:
+ 815 automatic trans
+ 670 destination & delivery
Final price: 17070 + tax + title/etc
w/X plan it is $16,155
w/MI tax + title final price w/X plan is $17147 less $1,500 rebates if using Ford credit.
That comes to a final price of $15,647
This is SE vehicle w/standard equipment.
Is there anything else I can negotiate? The dealer says that with the X plan, there are no other offers other than the posted Ford rebates. Is that true?
Thanks for any help!