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Hybrid Vehicles Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars
418 messages, Last post on Oct 10, 2009 at 3:33 PM
You are in the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: hydroexpert (Jul 18, 2008 10:22 am) TANSTAAFL. Look it up, it applies to physics, and MPG improvements. |
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| just read in my local paper last night ..a local guy says he got all the info he could from internet about hydrogen fuel cell conversion .Built a little cell for about 5o bucks installed on his old pickup ( I think something like an 86 datsun). Says he was getting 21mpg- now gets 31 mpg. He didn't say whether he bought a kit. Says he is a diesel mechanic. Anyway after reading through previous posts I see that some say the alternator will draw more energy than you can regain from the hydrogen injection. My question; (and don't beat me up too badly) my limited understanding of an alternator or generator on a car is that if the engine is at say 2-4000. RPM, unit is basically putting out full load all the time but the regulator determines how much is allowed to go out into the system according to the draw from radio, fan, window moters,etc. In other words.. does the engine really have to work harder to produce a little more electricity from the generator or alternator? | |
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Replying to: brian76 (Jul 22, 2008 2:43 pm) Yes, it does. (all this applies to alternators, no cars past 1965 or so have generators). Think of it this way- if the alternator was putting out all that electrical power, it has to get used somewhere - for the car's electrical system, somewhere. Unless you have a toaster wired into your system, it isn't. Energy used by the hydrogen generators (don't call them fuel cells) is a direct load on the engine. If it's a little load, fine, but that means it's only making a little hydrogen, with even smaller effects. The other way to think of this - if it worked, there are 100 multi-billion $$ corporations that would be buying them. They aren't, for good reason. |
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Replying to: texases (Jul 22, 2008 4:32 pm) LOOK....I was telling you about this guy and NO its not ME......he truely has something developed here where I live. and this guy is being interviewed by television networks and all that. I think he said this system will only be installed for people, but not sold alone. He said to the TV people that he has figured out the flaws and problems with amprage and heat that make it viable to be installed into vehicles. AND he also mentioned that ALL the so called systems out there have the right idea but they will never work properly for any length of time and has warned viewers not to be fished into false hopes because he said you can't solve and fossil fuel problem with a 50 dollar idea,,,wake up!...LOL.....and I think I believe him you know....too many You Tube engeniers our there. I don't know if there aired this guy in the United States yet....but I don't think he really cares about the US anyways,,,,he blames world prices and fuel problems on the US ...he says that they put themselves where they are today and dragged the world with it. Actually as bad as it may sound,,,,I can understand the thinking there. If this thing actually works, It will push hydrogen power forward big time and then big companies will be scratching there heads, like Shell with all there billions couldn't do it cheap and easy and works....wouldn't that be something,LOL.....and some Canadian guy did.....that would be great I think....Chalk another one up for the Canadians...LOL....IF its true ....but i'm going to look into this for sure...
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Replying to: texases (Jul 22, 2008 4:32 pm) Okay. I referred to generators not because they are still in use but because they illustrate more clearly what I was saying. For instance: in the old days with a generator in your car the regulator determined, according to what draw was being required,how much juice to 'dole out' so to speak. So if the engine was running but no accesories were on ( lights, horn, radio, etc.) the generator was developing a fixed amount of electricity which was being held back or 'floating ' on a line. As acessories were turned on, the regulator dispersed more current to the respective accessories. So, if a fuel generator ,as you call it, doesn't require too much juice why couldn't it use some of that elec. to operate assuming you weren't driving with every other accessory turned on? Of course there is a limit to how much juice is available but these fuel genertors may not need too much juice to operate.I'm not debating how much energy it takes to operate a fuel generator here. that's another issue. My point is; while the generator is turning at full speed it can produce more than enough elec. w/out loading the engine more than is required to run your lights. I can't see that driving with your lights on uses any more fuel than with them off. Granted I am not an elec. wixard but how far off am I?
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| Just fyi the newspaper article I referred to was on the front page of my local paper a day or two ago. you might look at it online under The Daily Astorian (in Oregon) tell me what you think | |
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Replying to: brian76 (Jul 22, 2008 8:55 pm) Actually it does. In the pre-computer controlled idle speed days, if you were at idle and turned on the lights and fan, the engine rpms would drop because of the added load. No free electricity, sorry. |
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Replying to: hydroexpert (Jul 22, 2008 7:26 pm) Man, talk is REALLY cheap. I for one would appreciate it if you stopped promoting this stuff, bought the "system" you are proclaiming, then submitted your data to Road & Track, Edmunds, or CR for independent testing. When I see some independently verified data, I will consider the concept. Until then, I consider this propaganda as a means to make some $$ on vulnerable people by selling them snake oil. |
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in the good old days when you turned on your lights while idling, there was a drop in RPM. But I'm not talking about driving around at idle speed. Lets move on to the question: does it take a lot of elec. energy from the vehicle's system to run a small hyrdogen generator. All I can tell you is this: I just drove over to look at a hydrogen generator installed in a 85 cev, LUV pick-up.(the one I mentioned seeing in my local paper).This guy built it from a 4' pvc pipe with 2 stainless plates inside- ran a line in to it from ignition and out to a ground. ran a hose from the pipe to the intake manifold just below the carb. He is getting 11 more mpg regularly for 2 months now. He had run the hose directly into his air cleaner on his 1st attempt and got only 4 extra mpg that way. Obviously any drain on the elec system (causing ,as you say, the use of more fuel) is more than compensated for by 11 more mpg. By the way, this guy I'm talking about isn't selling anything nor did he buy one of the 'kits' marketed on the internet.He just gleaned info from the internet and is a pretty bright backyard mechanic. So, to be clear here, I'm saying this engine is now a gasoline/hydrogen system...not a hydrogen engine. What else can I say? short of trying it out on my own truck (which I plan on) I can't give you any more proof that this simple device can make a significnt increase in MPG.
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