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Hybrid Vehicles Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars
419 messages, Last post on Dec 06, 2009 at 1:41 PM
You are in the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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I think we all know the cons (I can't think of any pros) of gasoline; it's filthy dirty in terms of emissions, it's getting very expensive (especially here lately), and some day what we need to make it will all be gone. But what about alternative power? I think of hybrids as a step in the right direction, but not a large enough step. First off, I think development of hybrid vehicles is moving along way too slowly. By now, just about every vehicle that's currently available powered solely by an internal combustion engine should also be available as a hybrid. No doubt I'd have a hybrid now (because I hate spending money on gas) if a model that suits my needs were available. Secondly, although hybrids use much less gas than ordinary vehicles, they still use it. CNG powered vehicles would be a step further than hybrids because their emissions are almost zilch. CNG is very clean burning, but the problem I see this creating would be with the supply of natural gas. There have already been times when the industry has blamed low supplies for price spikes. Sound familiar? Now that most people heat their homes with natural gas, if everyone started powering their vehicles with CNG, the energy burning consumer would once again be at the mercy of the greedy energy providers. It seems to me hydrogen power would be the best of all for the obvious reasons, although if they became the norm, I'm sure consumers would charged for water accordingly. The one thing that puzzles me the most is why it's taking the auto makers so long to develop alternative powered vehicles. I've heard a couple different theories on this. One centers around the idea that big oil companies are doing everything they can to slow down development of APV's because they realize if these vehicles are produced and sold in large numbers, this would end their strong hold on the world market. This is similar to the theory that cancer researchers don't want to find a cure for cancer because the massive amounts of money now flowing their way would stop. Another theory is that auto makers just aren't devoting enough R&D into APV's because of the expense. I haven't been able to varify any of these claims, so as far as I know, they're just theories. Whatever the reason, something or someone needs to light a fire under the butts of the auto makers to get them to expedite development before these never ending increases in gas prices completely destroy the world's economy.
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Replying to: bottgers (May 09, 2004 7:08 am) kirstie_h Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host |
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1. Whatdoes gas has? It already has in palce a masive distribution system from refineries down to individual gas stations. There are some CNG stations , but they are not umbiqutious like gas stations. Hydrogen will be another issue altogether becuase of safety precautions during consumner fill-up, transport and transferrence. 2. Hydrogen is good an clean but currently it is very expensive to produce. Maybe there could be mega-size nuclear refineries to produce hydrogen. Current focus of Hybrid was on economy only, Newer generations are becoming performance aware. CNG has always been equivalent performance but the $2,000 conversion cost put most people off, especially individuals. The government never embraced or pushed CNG. Hydrogen is a possibility and if it targets economy vehicles first it will fail. However safety and production cost issues need to be be resolved up front. YMMV, MidCow |
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Hydrogen is very expensive to produce? Isn't hydrogen just water? What's the expense? I wouldn't mind paying the $2K for a CNG conversion as its benefits over gasoline are almost endless......except for, of course, its availability for automotive use.
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It has a strong afinity for water's other element, oxygen, and requires the expenditure of more energy to separate than it will supply as a fuel. Consequently, hydrogen is an energy transport mechanism rather than a source of energy. Although the same can be said of fossil fuels as a means to store and transport solar energy, the times frames to be considered are obviously very different. The "hydrogen economy" would only provide a different way to consume fossil fuel, not replace it. |
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Replying to: bottgers (May 19, 2004 7:36 pm) Hoewever, there may be hope. Existing chemical plants that produce Chlorine also produce Hydrogen as a byproduct. However, today is is usually just burned off. However, in the future it might be a fule celle Hydrogen source 
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After a couple of years of listening to people praise the hydrogen fuel cell as the saviour of the planet, I would like someone to answer these questions. If only pure water is the discharge from the tail pipes of fuel cell vehicles, what does one do in the winter? Do we park these vehicles or do we keep them in heated garages. Will the water turn the roads into skating rinks in Minnesota and here in Canada? Will the major cities that now have smog problems have ice fog problems from all the vapour coming out of thousands of fuel cells? Someone explain this side of the equation.
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