Last post on Aug 23, 2011 at 7:24 AM
You are in the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars
What is this discussion about?
Alternative Fuels, Hybrid Cars
#415 of 424 If hydro fuel cells are a scam, Why?
Feb 12, 2009 (2:05 pm)
Long before the US started having problems I got a loan. I ask those who are not a nieve. Why would a bank eagerly loan $6,000.00 to someone for their research if it was a scam. Lets face it, theres believers and non believers. I choose a more positive servey. Not a hear say.
#416 of 424 Re: If hydro fuel cells are a scam, Why? [momax]
Feb 12, 2009 (2:10 pm)
Momax, you sound like an HHO believer (note, HHO has nothing to do with 'hydrogen fuel cell cars'). You might want to drop by the HHO thread: HHO Kits-Do they really work?
#417 of 424 Re: Hybrid/CNG/Hydro - pros and cons of each [bottgers]
Mar 02, 2009 (3:34 pm)
Forgive me, this has been piling up inside me for-- years. Today, I watched T Boone Pickens going on and on about wind power and natural gas. I have read about plug in's, Hybrids and such, Hydrogen cell, natural gas, Bio fuels, wind power and solar power.
Let's keep it simple. I will assume we all know the basic concepts, benefits and drawbacks of each form of providing usable power. I have read, more than once and heard that if we were to convert every square inch of available space to solar and/or wind power, we still couldn't meet more than 20% of this countrys energy needs.
We talk about electric vehicles. Plug ins. We talk about Hybrids. Both have, currently, severe drawbacks. The plug ins drawback is-- the plug. The Hybrid (aside from the manufacturing process and accompanying pollution) is that it runs on the gas motor whenever you turn on the heater, run on the expressway or, (for now) turn on the air conditioner.
At the risk of throwing away a chance to be wealthy for my idea-- which I cannot believe is "my" idea alone-- why can't we make an electric car that runs on batteries, with a kerosene furnace for heat (the VW 412 had it in the early 70's. it ran off gasoline from the gas tank) and a RV camper refrigerator style air conditioner?
But, I'm not done.
California already has a problem with brown outs when everyone kicks on the home air conditioners. Whats going to happen when everyone gets home from work and plugs in ther Chevy Volt at 5PM?
How far can you go in a Chevy Volt? What if you want to take a 600 mile trip? What do you do, stop and plug it in for 4 hours?
Imagine this: Your driving along on the expressway, the volt meter shows you are getting low. Up ahead, you see a gas station. You exit the expressway, pull into the gas station and, instead of pulling up to the gas pump, you pull up to a long rack that stands next to a wind generator and topped off with a solar panel.
An attendant comes out. You throw a positive lock switch. Your electric car is now only powerd by a low voltage battery that keeps the computer, radio memory and instrument cluster powered up.
You reach down and pull a lever-- just like the lever you pull to release your trunk or hood. The attendant unplugs the battery pack, flips the latches holding the battery pack in place and attaches a hook to the pack strap. Using an electric hoist, he lifts out the battery pack, swings it over to an open slot in the rack, sides it onto the rack rollers and shoves it back with a clunk. A green light next to that slot starts flashing green. The connection is made, the battery pack is getting re-charged.Then he takes that hook, walks over to another slot in the rack, attaches the hook to a battery pack with a solid green light, pulls out a fully charged pack, sits it in your car, latches the battery pack tightly in place, reconnects the plugs and slams your hood shut. He then walks to your window, takes your $20.00 credit card or cash. You flip that positive lock switch in your car, your instrument cluster lights up and tells you you are good to go and you're off! As technology improves, you might be able to go 200 or 300 miles before you need to get another pack.
Got a big SUV or high performance car? Well, you might need to buy two or three battery packs. That's the price you pay for your big SUV or hot rod car! For most of us, in a sub compact size car, like a Corolla, Focus or Civic, one pack is enough-- thank you very much! When you do get home, you plug in your electric car to a solar powered charging station or the house current, just to "top off the tank" so to speak.
The one thing that needs to change is-- all manufacturers will need to standardize the battery pack and the receptacle. They do it now for fuel tank fill necks, it wouldn't be hard at all.
Think of it along the lines of a barbecue propane tank exhange or a welding torch tank exhange-- no different.
New technology? I'm all for it. But, before we go jumping into new technology with no certain outcome, why don't we use what we know works? This would work. Battery packs avialable at gas stations. Recharged with solar cells or wind turbines-- or, right off the grid. Got an old gas powered car? Buy gas. Got an electric car? Exhange a battery pack!
A plain old, current technology battery pack and one, two or four current technology electric motors could be installed in an existing body vehicle, take you at least 100 miles and be-- of all things-- PRACTICAL!! And, it wouldn't cost $40K or require years and millions of dollars worth of R & D.
If Ford comes out with a new electric motor that has more power and better range, whats the difference between that and trading in your old OHV gas guzzler V8 for a new 4 cylinder DOHC?
If new battery packs come out that last longer with more power, whats the difference between that and buying premium gas or, (for those of you that remember) the switch over from leaded to unleaded fuel? Until the old style batterys have worn out and are no longer available, you get a choice. heck, they could discount them for us cheapskates that would pay $10.00 to go 100 miles rather than $20.00-$25.00 to go 250 miles with the new type battery pack.
What's stopping this from happening? Technology? No-- we have it. Cost? The gas station owners will see the writing on the wall and invest in the "pack rack" and charging system. Just like they invested in gas pumps and storage tanks out in front of their blacksmith shops in the early 1900's.
I have looked, I have asked. No one seems to be able to tell me why this isn't feasable and do-able in a very short time. Maybe some one here can.
That's why I'm posting this-- I gotta know! Am I a visionary or am I just simple minded?
Thanks for letting me rant. I just had to do it.
Oct 10, 2009 (4:33 pm)
IM SORRY TO INTERRUPT BUT WILL SOMEONE, ANYONE PLZ TELL ME HOW TO ERASE MY ACCOUNT ON THIS.
#419 of 424 Ethanol not Hydrogen
Dec 06, 2009 (2:41 pm)
Brazil has already converted to ethanol fuel. The German V2 rockets ran on a mix of 75% ethanol and 25% water. The water was there to cool down the combustion temperature. Converted to steam, the water contributed to the overall propulsion and captured heat energy at very low cost.
The problem with hydrogen is its current ridiculous cost, a safety issue that will not go away and the lack of an existing network to make it available as well as no easy path for conversion of an enormous fleet of cars and trucks. Ethanol's cost factors are already within reason, has no more of a safety issue than gasoline, can utilize the same network of gas stations for distribution, is much, much cleaner than gasoline and more environmentally sound, and allows for a gradual conversion from gasoline to ethanol. Existing engines are already redesigned ("flex-fuel") to accept ethanol as the primary fuel.
Ethanol also allows for a mixture of gasoline and ethanol, along with water that will work efficiently at acceptable costs and once engines are designed to handle it at proper high compression ratios, the fuel mileage and performance will improve.
The hydrogen fuel cell proposal is made by oil companies who stand to lose significant market share in an ethanol based scenario. You'll recall that the Executive Branch of government was particularly biased in favor of Big Oil when the Hydrogen Fuel Cell idea was put forth.
You can expect the Hydrogen Fuel Cell will be very, very slow to develop for political and economic reasons that have little to do with safety and emissions and much to do with where the money flows.
Jul 13, 2011 (12:29 am)
H20 is water, its the combination of hydrogen and water, it's also a by-product of a hydrogen fueled car (instead of carbon emissions, water comes out of the exhaust).
Hydrogen is an element, I think the expense comes from extracting the pure hydrogen from wherever it is found and then further purifying, refining and preparing it for use by a hydrogen engine.
#424 of 424 Re: Hybrid/CNG/Hydro - pros and cons of each [bottgers]
Aug 23, 2011 (7:24 am)
While the foregoing significantly affects the chain of production of alternative vehicles and of relative little use of alternative fuel in the broad sense, they are not in its strict sense. But conventional gasoline, while not forbidden, is something not favored. Such use, should, whenever possible, be avoided and prevented.
Hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs) combine the benefits of gasoline engines and electric motors and can be configured to obtain different objectives, such as improved fuel economy, increased power, or additional auxiliary power for electronic devices and power tools.