Last post on Jun 01, 2013 at 6:20 PM
You are in the Honda Insight
What is this discussion about?
Honda Insight, Hybrid Cars
#32 of 181 2005 Insight
Oct 13, 2004 (3:37 pm)
Well, looks like Honda has announced that Insight WILL be built for 2005. But, the problem is, they said there will be NO changes from the 2004 model.
Problems with this:
1. They will not be including any advances in hybrid technology (batteries, motors, wiring, etc.) that they've learned. So, should one buy a Civic or Accord hybrid instead? Are/Will they be significantly "better" because they are "newer" technology?
2. I can't believe there was no room for any improvement. Can you say that "everything" in the 2004 is "perfect"? That there was nothing learned from warranty repairs, etc. that could have been corrected/adjusted for 2005?
3. Would have been really nice to get a different color interior.... I really have a problem with that brown/tan they use! I can't understand why they didn't choose grey, which would have gone beautifully with the three available external colors.
And, I can't find any statement as to how many they expect to build for 2005. Will they purposely keep the number small so that dealers won't need to discount? Or will there be plenty available once they start rolling in? I know at the end of the 2004 model year dealers here were discounting left-over Civic hybrids.
#33 of 181 Re: 2005 Insight [rcc442]
Oct 13, 2004 (3:46 pm)
No changes for 2005 doesn't mean a car is perfect. It probably means that the sales volume doesn't justify changes, such as a new interior.
#34 of 181 Insight not a Full Hybrid?
Oct 13, 2004 (3:49 pm)
Is it true that the Insight is not a "full hybrid"? In other words, when starting from a stop, it always starts the gas engine, correct? And, for most around-town driving, both the electric motor and gas engine run, correct?
(If both of the above statements are true, then it is not a full hybrid, since a full hybrid will use only the electric motor for starting and most around-town driving, unless the batteries are low or if the driver demands more power.)
However, this may be a moot point, since the Insight's fuel economy is so high as it is...
#35 of 181 Re: 2005 Insight [backy]
Oct 13, 2004 (3:54 pm)
I think the interior color was a design mistake to begin with. The exterior colors are fine; but a grey or charcoal interior color would have gone much better with all of them.
Not asking for a "new" interior; just to manufacture all existing parts in a different color... don't even have to offer two colors!
#36 of 181 Re: 2005 Insight [rcc442]
Oct 13, 2004 (4:01 pm)
Any manufacturing changes cost money. When you consider how much money Honda makes per Insight plus the low sales volume, even minor changes can be hard to justify business-wise.
Oct 13, 2004 (6:05 pm)
___The Insight will be available in 2005 w/ no changes. It will be available to those that order one as of this writing. If you order one through your Honda dealership, you can expect to pay close to or at MSRP. You might find a dealership to order one for a grand or so over Invoice if you place a non-refundable large percentage of MSRP down payment possibly? MSRP or anything close to that price for any Hybrid is ridiculous imho. 2004 MY Insightís production was halted in early summer IIRC and the same can be expected for 2005 if history repeats itself.
___Given the Insightís low volume and unprofitable status per vehicle built, Honda is not going to improve upon there current capabilities or attributes at this point in time. Maybe if gasoline climbed to $6.00/gallon or more and people finally got serious about fuel economy and purchased boatloads of Insightís, Honda might invest in improvements or an Insight II. As it stands, Honda still has the highest fuel economy capable automobile in the Insight available anywhere including the POS Lupo available in Europe.
___As for the mild/full hybrid discussion. I donít know of any automobile available to us anywhere that has hit > 95 mpg in the city or > 115 mpg out on the highway. With that, the Insight 5-speed is your best choice for maximum fuel economy available anywhere. An Insight also forces one to sacrifice in areas one may not wish too. Some of these sacrifices include performance, ride, and handling and are inherent sacrifices to all hybrids available to date in one form or another. All of this doesnít really matter of course because if you want greater fuel economy; you can achieve it from the vehicle you currently drive Ö if you so desire. Unfortunately, the practical fuel economy limits of all other automobiles can not come close to the fuel economy capabilities of an Insight 5-speed no matter how much we all wish our present automobiles (Hybridís, Dieselís, or std. ICEís) fuel economy to improve Ö
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___2000 Honda Insight 5-speed #203 - 92.5 lmpg
#38 of 181 Re: [xcel]
Oct 14, 2004 (11:55 am)
Thanks for the "insight".... especially on the pricing aspects. It would be difficult to place a large and/or non-refunable deposit having never even sat in one, let alone test driving one. Wonder why they'd only order one for you under those circumstances... if they are in demand, would seem they'd leap at (any) opportunity to order one. Then if you back out, they've got another to sell.
How much lower MPG do you think there would be for the CVT? Your mileage is MUCH above the EPA estimates. Wonder if the continuously-variable transmission model could also be expected to beat the estimates?
Have you ever experienced problems with the gas engine restarting so often (sounds like it will cycle on and off at every stop in city driving... quite an exercise for a starter)?
Oct 14, 2004 (12:16 pm)
The problem is that they are not in demand.
Honda keeps making them because they can have the bragging rights for the highest mpg vehicle. This gets a lot of free publicity for Honda.
XCEL is a pretty phenomenal driver for getting high mileage. I don't think many people can come close to what he can do. However, I think you can reasonably expect to get the EPA estimates and maybe a little better if you follow guidelines for getting maximum mileage.
Oct 14, 2004 (12:46 pm)
From my experience(around 35k miles), you can expect around 56 mpg in mixed driving from the cvt. I am not sure how that relates to the epa estimates. the 5-speed has a few advantages (more control of auto-stop, lean burn, etc) that result in greater potential impact on mpg by driving style.
As for the starter, the insight does not use a conventional starter (except as a backup). The electric motor part of the drivetrain is used to start the gas engine.
#41 of 181 Air Conditioner Cooling?
Oct 20, 2004 (4:17 am)
Wayne (Excel) ,
You have a 5-speed Insight. How well does the Insight AC coll down on hot (above 90 degreess0 days?
I had a 1995 Acura Integra GSR and it colled very slow, maybe 5 minutes before you had real cold air. After I put in a cold air intake ( clear up a lot of the space take up by the factory air filter) it cooled much faster, taking only 1 minute.
P.S.- If I could ever find a car dealer that had a 5-speed Insight in stock that I could test drive, I might buy one. I am just not sure if I could handle the perfomance. However, I have test driven a Jetta TDI 5-speed twice and was pleased with the performance.
P.S.S. -Wayne thanks for all of your insight and comments on the Hybrid forums. I for one really appreciate your knowledge and your point of view. Most of the time I fully agree with you!