- #24 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [gagrice #23]
by sebring95
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Jun 18, 2004 (9:13 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2004 8:37 am)
The big question is will it pull a 10,000 trailer up a 6% grade? I am sure there will be people that jump on this new truck.
Not an issue because the same engine is used regardless of hybrid or other. It's a very light hybrid system that mainly is only in use at very low speeds and for idling. I doubt you'll see any mpg change on the highway in real life (long trips). The EPA highway cycle is NOT just driving on the highway at 65mph, it's a warm start-up, lower speed driving, then some higher speeds. That's why many cars will beat the EPA on long highway only trips. My Tahoe regularly hits 20mpg on long highway legs.
There's also no Chevy with the 5.3L V8 (used in the hybrid) rated to tow 10,000# anyway, lol! Somewhere around 7500#, which is a lot of work for the 5.3L anyway. I keep my Tahoe around 5,000# and it does the job. Very aggravating though when I'm used to pulling 15,000# easier with a diesel.
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- #25 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [sebring95 #24]
by gagrice
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Jun 18, 2004 (9:51 am)
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jun 18, 2004 9:13 am)
Sounds like the hybrids will be limited to the light duty 1500 series. Most contractors use the 2500-3500 HD trucks. So much for the built-in gen set. Tax credit is kind of wasted also when you can write off a new 6000# vehicle in one year. Diesel pickups are going to still be the way to go.
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- #26 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [gagrice #25]
by sebring95
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Jun 18, 2004 (12:06 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2004 9:51 am)
I've heard a rumor of the Dodge Ram coming with similar hybrid set-up, but with the Cummins trucks. I imagine the 3/4 trucks will eventually get this if it works. Actually, a huge number of contractors and such use 1/2 ton trucks. Mainly because they're cheap and generally get the job done.
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- #27 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [sebring95 #26]
by gagrice
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Jun 18, 2004 (12:14 pm)
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jun 18, 2004 12:06 pm)
I was thinking about the Oil field where I work in Alaska. All you ever see is 1 ton diesel crew cabs. Mostly Ford a few Chevys and Never a Dodge. Seems strange with that great Cummins diesel. I think the Oil Companies have closer ties to Ford and GM. No Toyota trucks either. I imagine we will get some hybrids if the fleet price is competitive and they get a tax break from Uncle Sam. BP knows how to milk the governments of all the countries that have oil.
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- #28 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [gagrice #27]
by sebring95
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Jun 21, 2004 (4:38 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2004 12:14 pm)
When I was in corporate, fleet buying was under my supervision. Ford is extremely aggresive on their fleet sales. Our statistics pretty much left us with operating costs that were equal regardless of GM/dodge/ford. Ford generally had a big advantage on the trucks, $1,000 sometimes. Once in awhile, GM would push a particular model that would be a better deal. Dodge rarely did any selling on the fleet side for trucks. GM pushed the cars hard, luminas would come in $500-$1,000 under a Taurus. I understand that Ford is now backing off of fleet sales, at least on the car side. Not sure they'll ever back off of the trucks, they've got a big profit center on them. GM will probably push these into fleets, particularly because fleets are more tolerant of problems and sometimes have better warranties.
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- #29 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [sebring95 #28]
by gagrice
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Jun 21, 2004 (6:57 am)
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jun 21, 2004 4:38 am)
That fits exactly what I am seeing in the field. Also what I heard, that Ford was less expensive.
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- #30 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [gagrice #27]
by midnightcowboy
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Jun 21, 2004 (7:24 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2004 12:14 pm)
>Mostly Ford a few Chevys and Never a Dodge.
Curious?
Why never a Dodge? Is a Dodge unreliable?
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- #31 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [midnightcowboy #30]
by gagrice
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Jun 21, 2004 (8:14 am)
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Jun 21, 2004 7:24 am)
Why never a Dodge? Is a Dodge unreliable?
Not at all. They refuse to give into big corporations on fleet sales. As Sebring95 pointed out Ford usually gives the biggest discount. It all has to do with dollars. I am sure to Exxon or BP a 3/4 ton truck is just that, no matter who makes it. They go for the bottom dollar. If Chevy or Dodge would buckle under they would get the sales.
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- #32 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [gagrice #31]
by sebring95
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Jun 21, 2004 (8:29 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 21, 2004 8:14 am)
all has to do with dollars. I am sure to Exxon or BP a 3/4 ton truck is just that, no matter who makes it. They go for the bottom dollar.
Exactly. We were buying between 700-900 cars, 300 vans, 300 pickups, 85 medium-duty chassis per year, and if you can save $50 per unit you'll do it as long as the operational costs are similar. The operational and resale was always better on the toyotas/hondas, but the upfront cost was many thousands higher which would never materialize in overall savings. Same thing though on the 1/2 tons, fuel burn can be an issue and if one model gets significantly better mpg, it can correlate to cheaper operating costs and give you an advantage. At the time I was involved, chevy trucks weren't any more efficient than the Fords. However, I would think now with the V8's, GM probably already has an upperhand in efficiency. Another 10% with the hybrid system could be significant. My Tahoe was rated 1-2mpg higher than the Expedition was when we were shopping. Add another 1.5mpg and you've got a couple thousand dollars savings over a 100k miles service life. Significant when you've got 2000 trucks!
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- #33 of 87
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Re: Government statistics on Hybrid trucks [sebring95 #32]
by gagrice
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Jun 21, 2004 (8:43 am)
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jun 21, 2004 8:29 am)
I think Chevy has always had a slight edge in MPG over Ford. Where I work the big companies only buy diesels. They keep them for 3 years and send them out. If you get a Truck from Alaska with only a few miles it may be misleading. The last I heard an hour of idle time was the equivalent of 35-45 miles of driving. Many vehicles are started at 6 am and shut off at 7 pm. May never move from the power rail. It is easy to calculate. 400-500k miles equivalency is common. Fuel consumption is not a big issue in the oil fields, wonder why?
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