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#378 of 395 Re: Reverse Engineer [kdhspyder] by goodcrd Dec 03, 2006 (9:15 am)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 03, 2006 7:50 am) You still don't get it. It's not cost effective. There is a "concept" called point of diminishing returns. And small hybrid diesels are past that point right now. Say if fuel costs go to $5.00 per gallon then maybe. A Hybrid diesel like the Opel should conservatively get 50 mpg combined. It's non-hybrid version 40 mpg. That is a 25% increase. At $5.00 per gallon that's $0.125/mile non-hybrid and $0.100/mile for the hybrid version. Over 150,000 miles the difference works out to be $3,750 in fuel costs savings. That will take 6+ years to recover the initial costs at $5.00 per gallon, longer at $3.00. At $3.00 per gallon it works out to $2,250 for the same 150,000 miles. Not practical!! Advanced engines which are more efficent like the Scuderi design are better solutions and are easier and more cost effective to Hybridtise. Now this is my estimate on when you will see this engine in production and used in a production vehicle. 5 years. Shortly after most manufactures get their diesel models to pass US EPA emission standards. When it comes to doing business glory has nothing to do with it. It's all dollars and cents. You can't eat glory. Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Dec 03, 2006 1:17 pm) tpe (Dec 04, 2006 10:13 am)
#379 of 395 Re: Reverse Engineer [goodcrd] by kdhspyder Dec 03, 2006 (1:17 pm)
Replying to: goodcrd (Dec 03, 2006 9:15 am) The Prius wasn't cost effective when it was first introduced in 2000 but Toyota took the risk so that by next year they will havesold nearly a million of the hybrids.   Seriously now, Maybe that is the very point of all of this. GM should bring this to market in the same way Toyota and Honda did in 2000. Take the risk. It looks good. It'll probably get great gas mileage. Just Do It.   Since 2000 Toyota and Honda have shipped nearly 1.0 Million hybrids and gathered all the good press and probably some profit. They took the risk. If the GM product is more than a skin over an idea then put it on the market. If they keep dragging their feet then Toyuzu and Honda and Renault all will have the diesel hybrid here first, making money and getting the good press.   Now if it is just a skin over an engineer's dream then maybe it's not ready for the road. You can bet that in 2010 a Toyuzu diesel hybrid will be here. Gm better have this Opel ready as well.   GM faithful are dying for GM to do something dramatic, like the Saturn announcement this week, to show that GM understands the surge of buying interest in fuel efficient vehicles.
#380 of 395 Re: Reverse Engineer [goodcrd] by tpe Dec 04, 2006 (10:13 am)
Replying to: goodcrd (Dec 03, 2006 9:15 am) Say if fuel costs go to $5.00 per gallon then maybe. A Hybrid diesel like the Opel should conservatively get 50 mpg combined. It's non-hybrid version 40 mpg. That is a 25% increase. At $5.00 per gallon that's $0.125/mile non-hybrid and $0.100/mile for the hybrid version. Over 150,000 miles the difference works out to be $3,750 in fuel costs savings. That will take 6+ years to recover the initial costs at $5.00 per gallon, longer at $3.00. At $3.00 per gallon it works out to $2,250 for the same 150,000 miles. Not practical!!   Isn't this vehicle being introduced in Europe? If so then gas prices would have to go down to hit $5/gallon. Actually I've never understood why manufacturers are making hybrid versions of these already fuel efficient vehicles like the 40 mpg Opal. Take a 20 mpg vehicle and increase its fuel efficiency by this same 25% and you'll save twice as much money on fuel.   When people talk about not recovering the hybrid premium they seem to rarely mention the resale value. If you get rid of your car after 3 years it will probably be worth about 50% of what you paid for it. So at that time you recover half of the hybrid premium.
#381 of 395 zytek hybrid diesel by marcb Dec 08, 2006 (11:18 am)
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=13635 Replies to this message: larsb (Dec 13, 2006 7:07 am)
#382 of 395 Re: zytek hybrid diesel [marcb] by larsb Dec 13, 2006 (7:07 am)
Replying to: marcb (Dec 08, 2006 11:18 am) About 74 mpg US plus 20 miles in all EV mode - BRILLIANT !!   I'd buy that car today if it were for sale in the USA.
#383 of 395 I don't know if this has been posted before but here goes by larsb Jan 28, 2007 (5:39 am)
Too bad this car never made it into production.   Hybrid diesel 4-dr sedan, 108 MPG in the year 2000.   GM Precept   The hybrid-electric Precept is driven by a battery-powered electric traction system that moves the front wheels, and a lightweight, 1.3-liter, 3-cylinder diesel engine in the rear. The direct-injection engine, featuring turbocharged compression ignition, was developed by Isuzu Motor Co. Ltd., one of GM's Asian affiliates. Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Jan 28, 2007 10:07 am) larsb (Jan 28, 2007 11:57 am) kdhspyder (Jan 28, 2007 5:13 pm)
#384 of 395 Re: I don't know if this has been posted before but here goes [larsb] by kdhspyder Jan 28, 2007 (10:07 am)
Replying to: larsb (Jan 28, 2007 5:39 am) Hmmm..... now Toyota owns this share in Isuzu that GM used to own. That's very interesting since it was announced that Toyota and Isuzu would have a hybrid diesel out in 2010. Replies to this message: larsb (Jan 28, 2007 11:57 am) kdhspyder (Jan 28, 2007 5:13 pm)
#385 of 395 Re: I don't know if this has been posted before but here goes [kdhspyder] by larsb Jan 28, 2007 (11:57 am)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 28, 2007 10:07 am) Good point and connection.....   Looks like Toyota now has that engine, and they already have had the hybrid side, so all they gotta do is put 1 and 1 together, and with their superior HSD technology over whatever GM had in the Precept......we might get 110-120 MPG in the diesel/electric hybrid they build.   KDH, will you sell me one of these when they build it ??? Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Jan 28, 2007 5:13 pm)
#386 of 395 Re: I don't know if this has been posted before but here goes [larsb] by kdhspyder Jan 28, 2007 (5:13 pm)
Replying to: larsb (Jan 28, 2007 11:57 am) Yep right after I get mine.   My Prius will be 5y.o. then and have about 200,000 miles so I'll be ready.
#387 of 395 ... Some Hands on Explanations by roland3 Feb 21, 2007 (7:22 pm)
... A thermodynamicist might say, the turbo takes heat and turns it into rotation, but let's look at what actually happens. Some of the efficiency is a reduction in pumping losses, but a big on-highway truck, at a fairly common 40 pounds of boost, is making fifty horsepower, just by turning the intake stroke into a power stroke, not even considering the increased cylinder filling. If you take the standard BMEP equation and go to the IMEP equation with, the 40 pounds pressure, with a nominal 850 cubes that is the horsepower created.   ... This is a little harder to calculate, because I don't know the BSFC numbers from back then. The performance of todays vehicles is taken for granted but the level would take a non turbo engine of 1500 cubes. Back in the early Sixties turbos where almost as rare as they are ubiquitous today and most typical normally aspirated, 850 cube engines, made horsepower in the low two hundred level; today drivers expect 500 plus hp.

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