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Diesel, Hybrid Cars
#346 of 395 Re: hybrids will definitely come down....Toyota has decreed it [larsb]
Oct 27, 2006 (9:01 am)
I think that we would both applaud some of the diesel/hybrids that are being tested.
#347 of 395 Cross post alert...
Nov 21, 2006 (9:44 pm)
It seems strange that Toyota sought the link with Isuzu.
With Isuzu already making the Duramax for GM, Toyota's purchase looked a little fishy.
Then there is this today. Toyuzu hybrid diesel
This may be why Toyota has not announced anything about hybrids in the small vehicle segment. This may have been in the works for a while. Can't let Honda get ahead. Honda can't let Toyota get
#348 of 395 Re: Cross post alert... [kdhspyder]
Nov 21, 2006 (10:23 pm)
Could also be that Toyota is close to merging GM into its tent.....at least that's been the rumor on Wall Street for many months now.
#349 of 395 Re: Cross post alert... [kdhspyder]
Nov 22, 2006 (4:13 pm)
Ok now. Hybrid Diesels. GM already makes a Hybrid Diesel. It uses the Allison EV trans. The GM hybrid system most used is a Parallel system. It uses the electric motor integrated inside the trans at speeds below 15 mph for acceleration and then uses the diesel engine for speeds above 40 mph. In between these modes it "blends" the use of both to decrease emissions and to improve fuel economy and noise pollution. Go to any large Mass Transit system and you will find these vehicles in use. Most transit agencies use the Cummins ILS engine with the Allison EV trans. Oh. GM holds about 23% of Toyota. I don't remember if GM holds part of Isuzu.
When the small diesel engines can "affordably" pass the new EPA standards you will see diesel hybrids. GM and Ford don't lag behind any other manufacturer. It all comes down to can they make money off of the product. Right now no. Depending on the market later. Maybe. Now for small diesel hybrids look at the Opel. For a nice Diesel model vehicle look at the Small Caddy and Chrysler models offered oversees. Just think about putting that same Opel engine in a Saturn VUE Hybrid. So don't think just because it comes from overseas it is better then what comes from the US. Ford, GM, and Chrysler sell to the US market what the US market will buy. Most buyers in the US market will not pay 30K+ for a small to midsized car. Try to get a European or a safe Jap model for the same price as a Chevy Impala or a Ford Fusion. Not going to happen. Stop knocking the US offerings. And again I say Honda is all Hype. Treat a Honda the way the average Ford, GM, or Chrysler gets abused and you will find the American cars are more cost effective.
#350 of 395 Re: Are Hybrid Buses worth the Premium? [gagrice]
Nov 22, 2006 (5:14 pm)
Good information. 15 to 20 percent is most common for Diesel Hybrid buses used in City use. People don't realize that you have other auxiliary systems being powered by the power plant. HVAC, Lighting, Pneumatic and ADA required equipment. The average HVAC system on a transit bus is 70,000 btus That's about 6 tons. The biggest savings comes from regenerative braking. The alternators on a 40' transit bus operate between 3kW to 12kW depending on load required. All these systems get their power from the engine. This is before any forward motion by the vehicle.
So MPG is just one concern. Think about it this way. Lets say the Transit system is paying 50 Million a year for fuel. Take 15% due to Hybrid use. 50-7.5=42.5 That's 7.5 million. Use 20% then they reduce their costs by 10 mil.
Also the transit bus is kept in service for 12 to 18 years. I'll put it this way. Most transit buses I deal with average 26,000 miles a year of City 5MPH stop and go use. The vehicle is sold for scrap after about 15 years. So 15 times 26,000 is 390,000 miles. The average 40' bus gets 3.5 mpg. The Hybrids are getting 4.2 mpg. 390,000/4.2=92,857 gallons. Now use 3.5 we get 111,428 gallons. Say 18,571 gallons at $2.20 = $40,857. Now add the savings through brake ware. About $4600 per year. Then we get $69,000+41,000=$110,000. Also the lowered PM and NOx emissions to the city air pollution. The extra capital costs of the Hybrids are being covered by the lower costs of operation and impact on the environment. Right now it seems to be a wash.
#351 of 395 Re: Cross post alert... [goodcrd]
Nov 22, 2006 (5:45 pm)
So don't think just because it comes from overseas it is better then what comes from the US. Ford, GM, and Chrysler sell to the US market what the US market will buy. Most buyers in the US market will not pay 30K+ for a small to midsized car. Try to get a European or a safe Jap model for the same price as a Chevy Impala or a Ford Fusion. Not going to happen. Stop knocking the US offerings. And again I say Honda is all Hype. Treat a Honda the way the average Ford, GM, or Chrysler gets abused and you will find the American cars are more cost effective.
Where in the world did you get any of this from the post about a Toy-uzu diesel hybrid. Other than the reference to GM/Izuzu link it said nothing about anything being better than anything else.
I think the GM dual-mode is probably the best system for improving fuel efficiency in heavy vehicles.
However the blog entry indicated that this Toy-uzu diesel hybrid would likely be implemented in smaller vehicles like the Yaris/Corolla. Probably in competition to Honda's new small hybrid to be built in the Midwest.
But it's new and it's an interesting development for small vehicles.
All that other stuff about Caddy's and $30K vehicle and GM holds 23% of Toyota??????????? Are you into the eggnog early? Just show me the specific reference and I'll give your rant a little credence.
#352 of 395 Re: Cross post alert... [kdhspyder]
Nov 22, 2006 (6:07 pm)
Read the posts and look past the last 6 months. Take a look at who owns who and you might learn something. It's not a rant. It is real.
#353 of 395 Correction, My error
Nov 22, 2006 (7:00 pm)
GM sold off some of it's Toyota holding in late 2005. This has to do with some transfers in Fuji Heavy Industries and other companies. They still have some joint ventures and information sharing agreements. Toyota and GM have been working closely for years. Izusu has been with GM for years. Especially when Detriot Diesel was sold off about ten or more years ago. But I still don't rant!!!
#354 of 395 Re: Cross post alert... [goodcrd]
Nov 22, 2006 (7:37 pm)
I say Honda is all Hype. Treat a Honda the way the average Ford, GM, or Chrysler gets abused and you will find the American cars are more cost effective.
Well Americans tend to vote with their wallets. The domestics declining sales and the Japanese increasing sales would seem to contradict that statement. Have we been duped?
I'm not bashing US automakers. I believe that they are just as capable of producing exceptional vehicles. Unfortunately they are saddled with financial constraints that interfere with the pursuit of quality.
#355 of 395 Re: Cross post alert... [goodcrd]
Nov 22, 2006 (10:34 pm)
It is a rant because I asked for a reference. Cite a source or a specific holding in GM's portfolio.
I know you said it's real just provide a specific source for your information. Then I'll belive you.
What you might have heard is that GM holds 20+% of their joint venture in Fremont CA ( possibly ) while Toyota holds 75+% of that plant. But that's the only joint venture.