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395 messages, Last post on Aug 29, 2007 at 8:27 AM
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Replying to: john1701a (Jul 12, 2004 9:43 am) So you agree the auto stop/start will do very little for a diesel. A battery assist obviously would. Sitting at a dead stop, the diesel is already using much less fuel than a gas counterpart. While coasting the diesel is using zero fuel. Which leaves us with the question of whether or not an auto start/stop would make sense (or cents). That "little" you elude to amounts to *MASSIVE* levels of waste when you multiple it times the over 500 MILLION vehicles currently on the road. The vast majority of which are gasoline powered and chugging fuel at a rate greater than a diesel. Please stay on-topic. |
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jul 12, 2004 9:57 am) Huh? I've been talking about full hybrids all along. You know, the kind that drive using only electricity at times. I'm not the one that abruptly changed the topic to "auto stop/start", nor have I focused on idle only. In fact, you are the one that mentioned "gas counterpart". Please stay on-topic. JOHN |
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jul 12, 2004 6:31 am) So, do you agree that diesel will get less benefits by going hybrid? "I actually did some testing yesterday with my VAGCOM software. I logged and monitored rpms, speed, throttle demand, and fuel qty....but I'm trying to compare speeds vs fuel burn to see if there's a sweat spot in the TDI." Wouldn't it be awesome if a computer knows all those information about your car and optimize everything for you on-the-fly? That will save a lot of work for you, isn't it? Can you say, HSD? Dennis
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Replying to: sebring95 (Jul 12, 2004 9:57 am) Nope. Gas electric use zero fuel at dead idle stop. "While coasting the diesel is using zero fuel." Gas electric hybrids don't use more fuel than necessary at all situations. "The vast majority of which are gasoline powered and chugging fuel at a rate greater than a diesel. Please stay on-topic." Again, comparing diesel to gasoline cars(off topic). If you want to talk about diesel-electric hybrids, compare it with gas-electirc hybrids. "Which leaves us with the question of whether or not an auto start/stop would make sense (or cents). " I would say no because it depends on how long the idling period is. Since, it is unpredictable, it isn't a solution. Diesel in general is a very good application for trucks and buses that operate most of the days and nights. For passenger vehicles, gas-electric hybrids are a better solution. Dennis
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 12, 2004 8:39 pm) I agree, my question is where the break will occur? From my perspective the GM hybrid PU will be a failure. The Hybrid SUV's on the horizon may or may not share in the success of the Prius. I would have to get 25-30 MPG in a Suburban size vehicle to consider changing. |
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 12, 2004 8:21 pm) I think the auto start/stop will have less benefit, particularly if it adds substantially to the cost. The diesel is more efficient to begin with therefore more difficult to justify expensive nuts and bolts. Wouldn't it be awesome if a computer knows all those information about your car and optimize everything for you on-the-fly? That will save a lot of work for you, isn't it? Can you say, HSD? Sure, no doubt. Lets just fire it with diesel instead of gas. |
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 12, 2004 8:39 pm) Not quite. It's clear to this point what the advantages of running a gas-electric are. When starting out with a motor more efficient than a gas motor, the advantages may not be the same. Getting a base-line comparison from the get-go is on-topic. A gas motor burns substantially more fuel than a diesel to begin with, which will obviously have an effect on how you would implement the electric system. My off-topic comment was a joke anyway, but there's a dreadfully thin margin of that around here anyway. Diesel in general is a very good application for trucks and buses that operate most of the days and nights. For passenger vehicles, gas-electric hybrids are a better solution. Diesel is a good application for trucks because it's superior performance and economy are obvious to most anyone. The same can apply to passenger vehicles if the correct engines are used. I think the new Mercedes diesel is proof of that. No reason it can't be improved upon with a hybrid system. We shall see how the higher horsepower hybrids with better performance do on the economy side in the real world. The Mercedes is a heavy mid-size luxury car with quite good performance, rated for 27mpg city and 37mpg highway. That's 7mpg better on both ends than a V6 Accord which is substantially lighter. And slower. |
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