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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Hybrid Diesels? 
395 messages, Last post on Aug 29, 2007 at 7:27 AM
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If going to diesel could be done at no cost, fine, but adding a diesel to a hybrid, while certainly improving mileage, likely would not pay. This is the hardest thing to understand - going from, say, 25 mpg to 50 mpg generates much more savings than going from 50 mpg to 75 mpg. Over 100,000 miles, going from 25 mpg (4000 gallons used) to 50 mpg (2000 gallons used) saves 2000 gallons (which means you'd have to drive 50,000 just to pay off the $2800 spent on a hybrid Civic, assuming $2.80/gallon!). Now, assume a diesel hybrid gets 75 mpg. It would use 1333 gallons over 100,000 miles, a savings of only 667 gallons from 50 mpg, one third the savings from the 25 - 50 mpg step. Using the $1400 increment for a diesel Jetta, it would take about 75,000 miles to pay off the cost. If you start with a diesel to get to 50 mpg (25,000 miles to pay that off), then add the hybrid mechanism for $2800 additional to get to 75 mpg, it'll take 150,000 miles to pay that off. Way too long for any mass market. A better question is this - why hybrids at all, if a diesel can get about the same milage improvement for 1/2 the cost? I'm looking forward to Honda's new diesels.
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Replying to: texases (Oct 26, 2006 9:39 am) You are way too practical and logical for this thread 
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Sep 13, 2006 10:54 am) It's all in what you want to drive. |
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Replying to: terry92270 (Oct 20, 2006 8:10 am)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Oct 26, 2006 10:35 am) I don't know if most people can afford that luxury.....and make their choice somewhere in the middle, which would be cheaper than two automobiles. Now if a married couple are both working, both commuting, I can see that.
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I can't see how smart people on this board cannot understand that a diesel/hybrid is the best of two GOOD WORLDS and not a mixture of a GOOD WORLD and a BAD WORLD. Some of you act like hybridizing a diesel is an insult to diesel technology, when in reality that is not true or sensible at all. Here's some logic for you: If a diesel is ALREADY more efficient than a comparable gasser, and hybridization makes a gasser even MORE efficient, then a diesel which is hybridized will be the ultimate in efficiency. Who cares about adding "complexity" when the result is an awesome, awesome vehicle in regard to lowered pollution and superior (unsurpassed) gas mileage? Are we to say that "diesels are ALREADY PERFECT and cannot be improved upon so just leave it alone?" That attitude is nonsensical and would lead to stagnation. Honda engineers saw the chance to build a clean, efficient diesel engine and built a car which set 19 world records. That's called applying new ideas to old technology. Just like a 3600 pound 5-passenger 4-door diesel hybrid car which can get 70+ MPG will be, which is what I am waiting for.
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Replying to: texases (Oct 26, 2006 9:39 am) What is half the cost? This is the key unknown factor in the diesel equation now. What will be the 'extra' cost. If one compares the two closest vehicles most recently, the Jetta TDI and Prius ( both being the same size and directed to the same market ), the price difference was negligible. If the diesel Accord does come out and is priced in the $23000 range then it will likely be a success. If it's in the $26000 range then it's the same price as the TCH ( assuming similar equipment ). My guess is that Honda will price it in the higher range if only not to 'leave any money on the table'. Toyota and Honda always keep each other in sight here in this market. If Toyota is selling the TCH in the $27-$30K range Honda is not likely to give up making money selling to the same segment. Cost and Selling Price often have little to do with one another. My own guess is that Toyota, Honda and Hyundai all could sell their midsized vehicles under $20K and survive. It might squeeze the retailers until they sweat blood but it's possible, IMO. |
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Replying to: terry92270 (Oct 26, 2006 10:41 am) my Prius for commuting .. 35-40,000 mi annually Then my wife's summer shoes .. an MR2 Spyder and then her winter shoes .. a 4WD V6 Highlander |
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Replying to: larsb (Oct 26, 2006 10:48 am) Good luck, I have waited for a midsized PU with a small efficient diesel to land on our shores for 8 years. I hope your not in a hurry. The real powers that be in this country are not interested in saving fossil fuel. Any roadblocks or diversions keep their agenda afloat. If a diesel is ALREADY more efficient than a comparable gasser, and hybridization makes a gasser even MORE efficient, then a diesel which is hybridized will be the ultimate in efficiency. I agree with your assessment. It just has not materialized in the form of a cost effective vehicle. You can crunch numbers all day and will not be able to justify a hybrid for mainstream buyers. It has to be someone wanting to make a statement or they have an extremely long commute. Since people have posted on this board I have seen poster after poster saying how the cost will come down. well almost 7 years later and not a single hybrid price has decreased. Add to that the diesel $1000 premium and the numbers do not add up. |
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gary says "well almost 7 years later and not a single hybrid price has decreased. " Yes, but they have not gone up considerably either. The first Prius was $19,995 base price and today's model, although larger and much more of a car, is base priced in the $21s. That's not a huge increase, and not unlike any car would go up in 7 years. 'Yota has demanded a price reduction and size reduction from their engineers for the next Gen Prius. We shall see. Dodge said the ESX-3 could sell for $28,500 in 1997. Were they lying? 
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