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#3 of 395 Re Economy by stevedebi May 06, 2004 (9:48 am)
Oh, so it is not important for an expensive vehicle to get high MPG?
#4 of 395 Re: To answer Sebring95's question .................... [daysailer #2] by sebring95 May 06, 2004 (9:59 am)
Replying to: daysailer (May 06, 2004 9:00 am) how's it ludicrous? It's not like there's other $58k SUV's that are performing better and getting anywhere near the fuel economy.   You said At present, diesels in the USA are merely another example of vehicles which offer improved fuel economy at the expense of performance   The new mercedes CDI is also another example. Better performance and much better fuel economy than the gas counterpart.   I think the current breed of Hybrids sacrifice more performance for the sake of fuel economy than the current diesels. So far the Prius is slower and more expensive than a TDI. Mileage depends on who you're talking to. We'll see what happens with the next round of V6 Hybrids, but I suspect a diesel hybrid would give similar/better performance and better mpg.
#5 of 395 There is! by dhanley May 06, 2004 (10:13 am)
The mercedes grand sport is a hybrid diesel, and very attractive--v8, 6-seater, 0-60 in sub 7, and good fuel economy.   Saying that fuel economy is "pointless" in a 58K vechicle assumes that only cost is a factor, which is VERY not true. I care a lot about fuel economy for many reasons, environment, dependence, politics, and a future when the oil runs out. I am of the opinion that people are not going to give up size and power until the oil coming out of the ground slows to a trickle, so we need to find ways to provide that while preserving our resources as best we can.   dave Replies to this message: usbseawolf2000 (May 06, 2004 2:14 pm)
#6 of 395 Re: There is! [dhanley #5] by usbseawolf2000 May 06, 2004 (2:14 pm)
Replying to: dhanley (May 06, 2004 10:13 am) Hey there is Toyota Volta with 400h V6 HSDdrivetrain, 3 seater, 0-60 in less than 4 sec and 40+mpg. Can Diesel beat that? A hybrid diesel will be interesting because there are more energy in the fuel.   Dennis
#7 of 395 Is it a hybrid diesel? by dhanley May 06, 2004 (3:46 pm)
Otherwise, why are you posting it here? Replies to this message: usbseawolf2000 (May 06, 2004 4:59 pm)
#8 of 395 Re: Is it a hybrid diesel? [dhanley #7] by usbseawolf2000 May 06, 2004 (4:59 pm)
Replying to: dhanley (May 06, 2004 3:46 pm) "why are you posting it here?"   Well, how about to see where hybrid diesel stand against hybrid gas? You sound like a sore person from looking at your other posts. I don't want to ruin this thread because there are so much to discuss regarding how much benefit diesel can get if combined with electric vs. gas electric. If it is not welcome here then, have a great discussion in this thread.   Dennis
#9 of 395 usb by dhanley May 06, 2004 (5:05 pm)
There's other hybrid vs diesel threads, so, thanks.
#10 of 395 by robertsmx May 07, 2004 (6:54 am)
How's this for a Hybrid Diesel?
#11 of 395 hehe by dhanley May 07, 2004 (7:49 am)
I wonder if one of those would fit under my hood??   There's a pretty good reason there hasn't been as many hybrid diesel cars produced. The gains to be had are less. Diesels are already throttle-free and lean-burn, so for one thing moving from a 2.0L to a 3.0L doesn't hurt efficiency as much as with a gas engine, and a smaller lean-burn engine is one of the reasons for moving to a hybrid.   Of course, there's regenerative braking and other efficiencies to be had but with the GrandSport, the hybrid makes the diesel 20% more efficient, which is not the same gain as a gas engine gets ( although the net efficiency is still higher ).
#12 of 395 by robertsmx May 07, 2004 (8:28 am)
It would definitely take a lot of space to put a 3200 HP diesel engine in a car, hybrid or not.   There have been some diesel-electric prototypes, but I wouldn’t bet against seeing a production diesel-electric car soon. It might come from Honda of all places. The limiting factor may be the bulk of diesel engines themselves.   If Honda installs an electric motor, twice as powerful as that in the Civic Hybrid (30 HP 2500 to 4000 rpm, 75 lb.-ft 1000-2500 rpm), to go with its 2.2-liter CTD-I engine current used in European Accord (140 HP 4000 rpm, 245 lb.-ft 2000 rpm), the power train would deliver 170 HP / 310+ lb.-ft, while improving upon the mileage that the CTD-I already does (rated 52 mpg mixed driving in UK) and definitely improving emissions (smog/green house) with the added benefits of idle stop and regenerative braking etc.   Sure, it would be possible to add displacement to the 2.2-liter engine to get that kind of power, but in the process, emissions will go up, and mileage will go down. And then, another aspect that electric power brings is replacing the current mechanical AWD system (while adding power). That’s an area I want to see hybrids touch in a big way.   Lotus had plans of creating a sports car using diesel-electric hybrid power train, not sure if they are going with it or not.

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