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#750 of 5290 IRS News Release
Oct 15, 2004 (9:59 am)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:43:03 -0400
From: "IRS Newswire" <irs-newswirelists.qai.irs.gov>
Subject: IR-2004-125 -- 2005 TOYOTA PRIUS CERTIFIED FOR CLEAN-FUEL DEDUCTION; NEW LAW RESTORES FULL DEDUCTION AMOUNT FOR 2004 AND 2005
To: "IRS News Release Service" <irs-newswirelists.qai.irs.gov>
IR-2004-125, October 14, 2004
2005 TOYOTA PRIUS CERTIFIED FOR CLEAN-FUEL DEDUCTION; NEW LAW RESTORES FULL DEDUCTION AMOUNT FOR 2004 AND 2005
WASHINGTON óThe Internal Revenue Service has certified theToyota Prius for model year 2005 as being eligible for the clean-burning fuel deduction. The certification means taxpayers who purchase this vehicle new may claim a tax deduction of $2,000 on Form 1040.
Federal tax law allows individuals to claim a deduction for the incremental cost of buying a motor vehicle that is propelled by a
clean-burning fuel. By combining an electric motor with a gasoline-powered engine, these hybrid vehicles obtain greater fuel efficiency and produce fewer emissions than similar vehicles powered solely by conventional gasoline-powered engines.
Under the recently signed Working Families Tax Relief Act of 2004, the clean-burning fuel deduction is up to $2,000 for certified vehicles first put into service in 2004 and 2005. The deduction will be limited to $500 for vehicles placed in service in 2006 and no deduction will be allowed after that year.
The one-time deduction must be taken in the year the vehicle is originally used. The taxpayer must be the original owner. Individuals take this
benefit as an adjustment to income on Form 1040. They do not have to itemize deductions on their tax returns to claim it.
The amount of the deduction for the 2005 model year Prius was set after the manufacturer, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., documented for the IRS
the incremental cost related to the vehicleís electric motor and related equipment.
The IRS previously certified the Toyota Prius for model years 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. The IRS also previously certified the Honda Insight for
model years 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 and the Honda Civic Hybrid for model year 2003 and 2004.
#751 of 5290 A Different Kind Of Hybrid
Oct 16, 2004 (3:40 pm)
Euro Accord "Muscle-Tec" (2003 Geneva Auto Show)
350 HP of Hybrid (IMA) power delivered via all four wheels. The powertrain was a hybrid of...
2.0-liter I-4 DOHC i-VTEC (200 HP)
Electric Motors/IMA (150 HP)
#752 of 5290 Re: A Different Kind Of Hybrid [robertsmx]
Oct 17, 2004 (5:15 am)
The photo shown on the link is similar to the US Acura TSX. Definitely a compact model compared to the midsize US Accord. The TSX is listed as 200HP for a 2.4L engine. The Civic hybrid uses a 1.3L engine and is listed at 93 HP. The coming Accord hybrid has a 15HP electric motor attached to it.
Getting 200HP on a 2L engine is possible with some modifications and add-ons. 150HP electric motors has been around for decades in various industries. These are big and heavy motors. To be able to integrate a motor (or motors) that total 150hp into a compact car is a very huge technological advancement. Equally impressive is a battery so compact that could support the power appetite of this motor. Then we factor in the weight of the motor, battery, and the really thick copper wires to support all that ampreage.
Honda must have developed something really big in car technology 2 years ago or the article above may have been a result of misinformation.
#753 of 5290 Re: A Different Kind Of Hybrid [little_pogi]
Oct 17, 2004 (11:37 am)
The 2.0-liter I-4 is the engine that Honda uses in the RSX (now rated 210 HP) and JDM Accord Euro-R (220 HP).
As far as the electric motor is concerned, among all the high powered hybrid prototypes from Honda are concerned, this is the most powerful IMA set up. Here are the others...
2001 Dual Note (300 HP 3.5/V6 + 100 HP IMA)
2002 RDX (190 HP 2.4/I-4 + 60 HP IMA)
2003 Accord Muscle-tec (200 HP 2.0/I-4 + 150 HP IMA)
At least one of the prototypes (Dualnote/DNX) didn't use batteries, instead ultra capacitors.
Unlike the IMA systems in production today, where an ultra-thin brushless DC motor forms a part of the engine's flywheel, these prototypes used a combination of multiple motors. In case of Dualnote, one motor tied to the engine (like typical IMA setup) and one motor each mounted in-wheel on the front axle.
Accord Muscletec was an official entry as a concept at 2003 Geneva Autoshow, but as always, Honda mentioned it as simply a "Sport Study Model".
#754 of 5290 Re: A Different Kind Of Hybrid [robertsmx]
Oct 17, 2004 (12:36 pm)
"2001 Dual Note (300 HP 3.5/V6 + 100 HP IMA)
2002 RDX (190 HP 2.4/I-4 + 60 HP IMA)
2003 Accord Muscle-tec (200 HP 2.0/I-4 + 150 HP IMA)
At least one of the prototypes (Dualnote/DNX) didn't use batteries, instead ultra capacitors."
None of those concept cars would be possible with battery as the electric storage device. For example, Accord Muscle-tec 150hp electric motor(s) will need 10 packs of Accord Hybrid battery.
NiMH used in Prius is capable of 1.3 kW/kg. So, to make 150hp(112kW), NiMH pack would weight 190lbs(pure modules weight). This is optimistic calculation because car manufacturers do not push the battery max output. For example, Prius battery pack is really capable of making maximum of 47hp but Toyota decided to push it only up to 34hp to prolong battery life(Prius GT draws 47hp). That's why Prius' NiMH pack weight 99lbs. From that realistic calculations, a NiMH pack that can supply 150hp would weight 443lbs!
But, you might say Honda use Ultracapacitors right? The Ultracapacitors that Honda used in their latest FCX fuel cell hybrid can output 1.5 kW/kg. That's about 15% better than Prius' NiMH. To have Ultracapacitor pack that can output 150hp, it would weight 386lbs! So, is it possible to make IMA hybrid with 150hp electric motor(s)? Yes. Is it realistic? Not yet because the pack would be too heavy and extremely expensive. That's why it is still called Concept Car.
On the other hand, did you know that Highlander Hybrid and Lexus RX400H will have 161hp(120kW) electric motor? They only need two Prius' NiMH battery packs. To understand how this is possible, you'll need to know how HSD works.
#755 of 5290 Re: A Different Kind Of Hybrid [usbseawolf2000]
Oct 17, 2004 (1:32 pm)
None of those concept cars would be possible with battery as the electric storage device.
Iím sure they had some energy storage method. And I did mention Dual note using ultra capacitors. You missed that.
For example, Accord Muscle-tec 150hp electric motor(s) will need 10 packs of Accord Hybrid battery.
Accord Muscle-tec should need more storage device, but your multiplication factor is intriguing to start with, rendering conclusions based off it useless.
On a related note, FCX has a 80 HP motor.
#757 of 5290 Re: A Different Kind Of Hybrid [robertsmx]
Oct 17, 2004 (1:51 pm)
"Iím sure they had some energy storage method."
I am not so sure. Assuming they do, by the time that technology become mainstream realistically, probably so will the fuel cell. I don't see electric high power IMA hybrids any time soon.
"your multiplication factor is intriguing"
My bad. HAH's electric motor is 16hp, not 15hp. Accord Muscle-tec will need 9.375 packs of Accord Hybrid battery. My point is still valid.
"On a related note, FCX has a 80 HP motor."
Reasonable. Remember, FCX's main electricity is coming from the fuel cell stack. Ultracapacitors are there to assist for fuel cell stack start-up time and high demand acceleration. So, the 80hp electric motor is powered by both fuel cell stack and UC pack.
#759 of 5290 Re: A Different Kind Of Hybrid [usbseawolf2000]
Oct 17, 2004 (2:10 pm)
Assuming they do, by the time that technology become mainstream realistically, so will fuel cell
Fuel cell is already a reality. It is the refueling and cost aspect that are the deterrants. Here is a Honda FCX Road Test article if you'd like to read about it.
Regarding energy storage, when you know Dualnote used ultra capacitor, you don't have to assume it did (or did not). DNX/Dualnote, BTW, was a mid-engined, four passenger sedan with three electric motors.
My point is still valid
You wish. Let us begin with discharge/re-charge characteristics as it relates to power demand/delivery. For that matter, let us see how your point holds up when I provide you the following specs (of a "real" hybrid car):
ICE Power: About 500 HP
Electric : About 150 HP
NiMH battery pack was used for energy storage. What does your math suggest about weight of this pack? If you're wondering about the car, it happens to be the first gasoline-electric hybrid race car that participated in LeMans (1998, Panoz Q9).
Remember, FCX's main electricity is coming from the fuel cell stack.
And did you just assume that 150 HP (in Euro Accord concept) or 100 HP (in Dualnote) or 60 HP (in RDX) are designed to function just like they do in the current IMA offerings?