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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 11, 2004 7:59 pm) Please read my message again and note the word majority. Here's my situation. I live within one mile of a major highway interchange. During that mile I can stop for gas, buy groceries on the way home from work, visit the bank, go to a mall. It's all there within 1 mile of my home. To get to work I drive to the interchange, get on the highway, and drive 16 miles at 65+ MPH. I get off the highway and drive less than 1/4 mile to get to the office. Every work day I spend 32 miles on the highway at 65+ MPH, and less than 3 miles of stop-and-go driving. If I can help it I don't drive on the weekends. So, yes, the majority of my daily commute is spent on highway-only cruising. For me, that's "typical".
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Replying to: shado4 (Jun 11, 2004 8:17 pm) It was a loaded comment, intentionally written to see if you'd catch how anyone can unintentionally be vague. The need to remove the personal aspect from these discussions had become obvious. You're on the sinking ship with me now! JOHN |
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Replying to: shado4 (Jun 11, 2004 7:50 pm) I believe the author's report is real and that he drove both cars. It is not about discrediting the report but rather scientific validity of the testing method. The report left a question mark with Prius mpg 27% margin of error. It is that error that needs to be discussed. You should see how some tried to discredit International Engine of the Year 2004 and Best Fuel Economy award in Diesel vs Hybrid board, msg # 514 to # 527. usbseawolf2000 "Hybrid vs Diesel" Jun 5, 2004 5:53pm When it comes to fuel economy, yes, I believe hybrids are just hype and not worth the premium dollars. I don't care about emissions... I see, HSD probably is not for you because it was designed with low emission in mind, even if it has to give up fuel economy. Do you also care about drivetrain response time, smooth power delivery, silence pure electric mode, etc...? Do you ever wonder why Prius with 76hp engine with electric motors beats 2.4L 160hp Camry in 30-50mph test by almost one second? The key is consistent responsive power delivery that HSD provides. Dennis |
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Hi Usbseawolf2000: Do you ever wonder why Prius with 76hp engine with electric motors beats 2.4L 160hp Camry in 30-50mph test by almost one second? The key is consistent responsive power delivery that HSD provides. ___First off, the only place I have seen the 30 - 50mph data in print is from Toyota’s own press pages. Secondly, the lowly 4 banger Camry is much faster to 30 and much faster to 60. This can be found from the car magazine data. Thirdly, the Camry is not only far less costly, but is larger and has a much more comfortable ride. Lastly in regards to the Camry, did you also know the Camry is available in a PZEV format as well? ___And back to the USA Today article. I don’t know if the Diesel VW vs. the Prius II was a great test or not given there may have been a tail wind for one vehicle and a head wind for the other. I have seen that speculated with prevailing winds in those areas favoring the VW from an Insight forum just this morning. ___The item that doesn’t appear to be faked however is that the Prius II took 11.1 gallons. This isn’t a 4 or 5 gallon fill but an almost max capacity fill so saying the computer errors will even themselves out tank to tank seems to be trying to cover something up. 11.1 gallons is far more fuel then John has ever placed into his Prius II so how would he know anything about it? I do wonder how full the tank was at the beginning of the trip however. The error is simply too large. Many Prius II owners are saying 2 -3 mpg high on the LCD vs. real world, not 13.5 + mpg. ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes
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Replying to: xcel (Jun 12, 2004 7:46 am) In only very LIMITED areas though. It is NOT available nationwide. > 11.1 gallons is far more fuel then John has ever placed into his Prius II so how would he know anything about it? Your first post back is a personal attack. That's bad. I have a receipt showing I pumped 10.7 gallons into my Prius when I first picked it up. And that was without even topping off! A difference of 0.4 of a gallon is hardly "far more". JOHN |
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Hi John1701a: ___First off, what personal attack? ___PZEV in limited areas? I can make a phone call today and pick up a PZEV on Monday in California or NY. ___10.7 gallons? What does this mean then? http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-data09.htm. I know when I picked up a brand new Toyota two years ago, it came w/ a full tank. ___Wayne R. Gerdes
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Replying to: xcel (Jun 12, 2004 8:21 am) When you focus a discussion on a particular person and make negative comments specifically to discredit, that is considered a personal attack... especially when you've been informed of it already. Please keep the topics focused on the technology, not a person. > 10.7 gallons? What does this mean then? The dealer allows you to pump the gas into your new car yourself. They just pay for it afterward. So I did, and they did. But I already answered that very same question you asked on the "up to the chore" topic. Why are you asking it again? JOHN |
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The gas-tank warning light flashed after 422 miles. I drove 10 miles to the next gas station and filled up, putting 11.1 gallons into the 11.9-gallon tank. That would indicate 38 mpg, far short of the 51 mpg government rating. --Hey Einstein, if you drive 422 miles and then drive an additional 10 miles to get to the next gas station, that's a total of 432 miles --not 422 miles. 432/11.1 = 38.9 mpg or 39 mpg after rounding up (the Jetta numbers were rounded up). --Gee, if he can make such a bone-headed mistake when writing an article in a publication read by millions, then I don't have much confidence in his ability to record the correct mileage numbers...much less perform a scientifically sound study (although in his defense, I don't think his intent was ever to perform a rigorous scientific test...or at least I hope not because he would have failed miserably). Prius is comfortable, a festival of technology and unquestionably cleaner-burning than the VW can be today with only high-sulfur diesel fuel available. But the real-world mileage of pleasant-driving Jetta was better than that of Prius... --How can you proclaim such a fuel economy verdict when you are clueless as to how much gas the Prius actually used?? If the bladder resulted in a 1.5 gallon differential, then the Prius may have gotten a solid 45 mpg vs. about 44 for the Jetta. I also find it surprising that he was able to pump in 11.1 gallons. From personal experience the most I've been able to pump in on an "empty" tank was 10 gallons with it more typically being 9 and change. --Furthermore, if this was a diesel vs. hybrid contest, the playing fields were not equal. Doing a highway mileage test only gives one side of the fuel economy story. A fair comparison should have also included city mileage results where the Prius has the advantage. I'm sure if the author had only done an "around the town" test and proclaimed the hybrid the decided winner based on its superior fuel economy, diesel fans would be screaming foul! --With so many factors influencing fuel economy (How much gas did you start out with? What were the weather conditions? Was there a head wind? How cold was it? What was the topography of the first route vs. the second route? How many stops were made along the way? What were traffic conditions like?, etc., etc.), and with none of them accounted for, the margin of error is so great that it makes the outcome practically meaningless. --C'mon folks, this article is based on junk science. To hold it up as the gospel truth is an injustice.
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Replying to: quasar4 (Jun 12, 2004 8:42 am) When we did our Insight, Civic-Hybrid, Prius, Jetta TDI, Navigator comparisons, we were within eye-shot of each other all 1,200 miles. That equalized the driving-condition factors as much as realistically possible. Too bad this recent test resemble that at all. JOHN
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 12, 2004 3:54 pm) JOHN |
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