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Hybrids in the News - READ ONLY

5290 messages,  Last post on Oct 25, 2006 at 8:37 AM

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#5231 of 5290
Re: Too many CA legislators still driving SUV HOGS [tpe] by rorr
Sep 28, 2006 (7:51 am)

Replying to: tpe (Sep 28, 2006 7:34 am)

"It would make far more sense to simply ban vehicles that got less than 20 mpg."
 
Or simply institute gas rationing. He who owns a more economical vehicle gets to drive more. It all comes down to just which choices you want the politicos to deny. After all, what's the consumption difference between someone driving a 20mpg vehicle who drives 10k miles a year and a person driving a 40mpg vehicle driving 20k miles a year?
 
"There are probably medical test that can identify these people and then they need to be sued also."
 
Abso-stinkin'-lutely. And it's a well-know scientific fact that healthy/skinny folks generally have higher metabolisms and exchange more O2 for CO2 than the more, uh um caloric-challenged amoung us.
 
Let's sue skinny people!
#5232 of 5290
Re: Too many CA legislators still driving SUV HOGS [gagrice] by rorr
Sep 28, 2006 (8:00 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 28, 2006 7:38 am)

"That is exactly how the elitist in our government act. Maybe we are stupid. We keep re-electing the same people to serve us."
 
Ah, a fellow cynic. And completely correct.
#5233 of 5290
Re: a sad story [gagrice] by larsb
Sep 28, 2006 (9:07 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 28, 2006 7:29 am)

WELL, SORTA.
 
They had a CONCEPT car, and an estimated production price.
 
And at the time, battery technology was SUCKY and diesel was WAY WAY DIRTY.
 
So, no, they did not build my dream car - they built a CONCEPT of what such a future car might be similar to.
 
They do have a good head start if they wanted to try the same car now.
#5234 of 5290
Re: Too many CA legislators still driving SUV HOGS [gagrice] by terry92270
Sep 28, 2006 (9:30 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 28, 2006 7:38 am)

"Or are the Califorinia politicos saying that the general public is just too stupid to make the 'right' choice
  
That is exactly how the elitist in our government act. Maybe we are stupid. We keep re-electing the same people to serve us. Most make their views clear during the campaigns. They are going to give us more than the other guy. Right, they will give us our own money back as they see fit."
 
Yes, they are.
 
So long as voters blindly support one party or another, and elect people based on their "feelings", people who are telling them what they want to hear, that will be the case.
 
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
#5235 of 5290
Re: a sad story [larsb] by texases
Sep 28, 2006 (9:34 am)

Replying to: larsb (Sep 28, 2006 6:31 am)

If going to diesel could be done at no cost, fine, but adding a diesel to a hybrid, while certainly improving mileage, likely would not pay. This is the hardest thing to understand - going from, say, 25 mpg to 50 mpg generates much more savings than going from 50 mpg to 75 mpg. Over 100,000 miles, going from 25 mpg (4000 gallons used) to 50 mpg (2000 gallons used) saves 2000 gallons (which means you'd have to drive 50,000 just to pay off the $2800 spent on a hybrid Civic, assuming $2.80/gallon!). Now, assume a diesel hybrid gets 75 mpg. It would use 1333 gallons over 100,000 miles, a savings of only 667 gallons from 50 mpg, one third the savings from the 25 - 50 mpg step. Using the $1400 increment for a diesel Jetta, it would take about 75,000 miles to pay off the cost. If you start with a diesel to get to 50 mpg (25,000 miles to pay that off), then add the hybrid mechanism for $2800 additional to get to 75 mpg, it'll take 150,000 miles to pay that off. Way too long for any mass market. A better question is this - why hybrids at all, if a diesel can get about the same milage improvement for 1/2 the cost? I'm looking forward to Honda's new diesels.
#5236 of 5290
Re: Too many CA legislators still driving SUV HOGS [larsb] by stevedebi
Sep 28, 2006 (9:46 am)

Replying to: larsb (Sep 26, 2006 1:32 pm)

"Surprised, Why? Diesel is "fossil fuel NON GRATA" in California, dontcha know?
  
As far as 'armor plated SUVs' go, well, a Highlander Hybrid can be armourized. So that's not a good argument for allowing government waste.
 
And even, let's say, if certain officials, by the nature of security, are REQUIRED to drive SUVs - there are WAYS to get them up to 25 and 35 MPG. One group of scientists took a Ford Exploder up to almost 40 MPG with about $3400 in mods."
 
I would like to see a URL to that story. The only case I know of is a bunch of university students who achieved good MPG - at a cost of 100K in specialized modifications.
 
It is not a matter of requiring an SUV, it is a matter of load carrying capacity. Armor plating and bulletproof glass are heavy. A HH bearing that extra weight and the passenger weight would get pretty bad MPG, and might not perform well enough in emergency avoidance situations (the vehicle has to accelerate and maneuver around threats).
 
In my younger days I had a tour of duty in Honduras. We had to drive up a mountain several times a week. The government origninally provided Chevy Suburbans with 6 cyl engines and factory armor plating. The vehicles could not get up the mountain. A V8 engine would have worked; this is the same principle.
 
A security chief starts with the requirements, and then finds the vehicles that fit the requirement.
 
But we needen't worry, the Excursion was phased out last October. So the Governator will be riding in something else next time...
#5237 of 5290
Re: a sad story [texases] by tpe
Sep 28, 2006 (9:53 am)

Replying to: texases (Sep 28, 2006 9:34 am)

You're absolutely correct. The way to make the biggest impact on oil consumption is to focus on the least fuel efficient vehicles, not the most efficient. Unfortunately you now run into the problem of apathy. People buying full size SUVs obviously don't place a high priority on mpg. Its an easier sell to get these people to pay for more power and ammenities than higher mpg.
#5238 of 5290
Re: a sad story [tpe] by terry92270
Sep 28, 2006 (12:23 pm)

Replying to: tpe (Sep 28, 2006 9:53 am)

So, you are saying I should sell my Esclade
#5239 of 5290
Re: a sad story [tpe] by gagrice
Sep 28, 2006 (2:07 pm)

Replying to: tpe (Sep 28, 2006 9:53 am)

People buying full size SUVs obviously don't place a high priority on mpg
 
That is not true. There are no choices for efficient full size SUVs. The last diesel Suburban was in about 1999. The diesel Excursion is now history. If you are not interested in a half size SUV you are stuck with the current offering of gas guzzlers. I am hoping that DCX get the Grand Cherokee and MB diesels over here soon.
#5240 of 5290
Re: a sad story [gagrice] by tpe
Sep 28, 2006 (4:03 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 28, 2006 2:07 pm)

I am actually somewhat amazed by the fuel efficiency full sized SUVs are capable of achieving. I drove a Ford Pinto in college in the late 70's. This was definitely considered a compact, fuel efficient vehicle. I rarely got 20 mpg and that was only when I drove exclusively highway miles. I know people with Suburbans and they claim to get in 15-17 mpg range. Not much difference for a vehicle that is close to 3x the size with 3x the power. If people think that the auto manufacturers can build a Suburban that gets over 30 mpg with no sacrifices in power or size then I'd like to see it.

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