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Replying to: carguy1234 (Jun 11, 2004 5:57 am) Without details, "all over the place" is meaningless. Anywho, looking closely at the only ads I've encountered recently, none of them are actually for Prius. They were all for HSD. Picturing a Prius only makes sense, being the premiere vehicle with HSD and the MotorTrend "car of the year" plus having recently won 3 more engineering awards. So why is Ford advertising their hybrid, knowing that all of the ones available for 2004 are already sold out? And why does Honda focus their advertisements on the MPG of the manual-transmission hybrid, even though some dealers only carry the automatic? JOHN |
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The WSJ run an article on the status of the Prius in yesterday's (6/10) paper. The focus was on too much demand relative to supply and how various dealers across the country are taking advantage of the imbalance by overcharging. The article also mentioned that Toyota plans to pull or otherwise limit advertising to avoid pulling people into dealers only to be turned away. Makes sense to me. The dealer angle is frustrating, but more because people are willing to pay the excessive amounts. It would be nice if Toyota would work to keep some of these dealers in check, though (the article mentioned one dealer buying a Prius at auction for over MSRP, so you can only imagine what they hope to get for it via ebay or ?). Others smarter than me can argue the merits of supply and demand relative to pricing, but I respect our local dealers for sticking to MSRP. Just my two cents. |
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-10-diesel-vs-hybrid_x- .htm What does a 500-mile highway trip have in common with normal, everyday driving? In other words, a diesel was provent to do well with cruising-only type driving. But what about mostly a daily-commute type driving (lots of stop & slow traffic)? A full hybrid like Prius thrives. > 11.1 gallons into the 11.9-gallon tank. That would indicate 38 mpg, far short of the 51 mpg government rating. The car's trip computer told me it had been getting 51.7 mpg. Single-Tank measure is grossly inaccurate at times, when you have a bladder in the tank. Prius does. This fact alone invalidates his results. A multi-tank average is the only way to measure properly (unless you install a flow-meter). And... I have 3.8 years of data clearly showing the displayed value averages within 2 MPG of actual. So he actually ended up getting somewhere around 49.7 MPG on that trip. That's over 5 MPG better than the 44 MPG recorded for the diesel. JOHN
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 11, 2004 10:55 am) YMMV but facts don't lie, MidCow
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 11, 2004 10:55 am) It appears that the mpg computer on the Prius is grossly inaccurate.
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-11-hybrids-fuel-econo- my_x.htm quote- So many people have complained about disappointing fuel economy of gas-electric hybrid cars that the federal government is telling automakers to consider putting more realistic mileage labels on their cars or do a better job warning buyers that they won't get the advertised mileage.-end Even Toyota admits the mpg is less in real world - quote- "Most of our cars get 10% to 15% less than the EPA (rating) in the real world," says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. "A 10% to 15% variance looks a lot bigger on a 55-mpg (hybrid) car than on (a gas-power) one that gets 15 or 20." -end |
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Hi All: ___I like the additional information included after the real world mileage numbers not being met as explained by the EPA rep after the Toyota rep’s 10 -15% remarks … Grundler says manufacturers can publicize any fuel economy numbers as long as they are no higher than what the vehicles receive from EPA. "They would simply print a different label based on information they have developed." Hoping to clarify things for automakers, EPA is taking the unusual step of circulating this statement: "Long-standing EPA policy allows manufacturers to voluntarily use lower fuel-economy label values when they believe that a vehicle may be inappropriately represented by the EPA-calculated label." ___This was news to me given I have always read that the EPA numbers on the sticker were the only numbers that could be posted as has been posted in previous Prius II discussions. ___And back to the discussion of a 10 - 15% overstatement of the Prius fuel economy … How does he explain away an almost 50% overstatement? 55 vs. 39 mpg in the Hybrid vs. Diesel test? Personally, I am waiting to hear that someone has achieved 60 mpg in an all city environment in a Prius II myself. The 3X I have been in the Toyota dealership discussing the Prius II, the salesman have instantly mentioned 60 mpg. The same item at the auto shows with a Toyota rep on the pedestal mentioning 60 mpg like it was the Holy Grail or something. Maybe the sales people and reps have never driven a Prius II for any length of time  ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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Replying to: moparbad (Jun 11, 2004 12:41 pm) It's not though, and I have an enormous amount of data to prove it. I also have a bunch of data showing you that can easily add over 2.5 gallons after "full" is reached. JOHN |
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Jun 11, 2004 11:44 am) But by ignoring some, you can mislead... like not acknowledging that highway-only cruising isn't representative of typical driving. Fact is, you can't accurately measure capacity based on a single fill, especially if you can't even proven the tank was full to begin with. An average over several tanks is the only honest way to measure. Not bothering to do that shows an insincere effort to properly test. That's why some go to the trouble to install a flow-meter instead. JOHN |
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 11, 2004 1:47 pm) Ignoring the data of other Prius drivers you can mislead some to believe mpg results are higher than typical. The typical news about hybrids recently is that they obtain lower than posted mpg and that even so people are lined up to buy them.
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