Last post on Sep 23, 2013 at 2:35 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Tundra, Truck
#518 of 838 Re: -0-% finance with hidden fees
Apr 07, 2008 (3:08 pm)
After getting all the data on costs/options and color, I proceeded to Toyota.com to apply for -0-% financing for 48 months. Based on our FICO scores of 750+, we were pre-approved -0-% 48 mos for $44K. I then proceeded on the internet and typed in the dialog box that I was willing to pay only "dealer invoice" and don't waste my time!. I received 4 offers via e-mail and phone for 08'Tundra CrewMax 4 X4 "dealer's invoice plus DMV fees". When I finally received a written confirmation as to the CrewMax options/color/and dealer's invoice pricing, I made an appointment to finally the car. At the time of closing or signing, I asked to review the detail cost analysis, and to my surprise, the Toyota dealership added $730 in admin fees, $500 in marketing, $800 in bank flooring interest fees, and $10 for gas: in addition to the dealer's cost. I questioned the 4 line items, and the reply was that it was mandatory fees! Bull! I walked out and fired off an email to the dealership/ BBB/ action line/ Consumer Affairs/ Federal Trade Commission. The added fees totalled $2000 on top of dealer's invoice...more profit and gougeing to the "qualify customer." In my complaint and letter, I informed him that my sister works for Toyota USA and the added fees are hidden fees (outlawed by the FTC). There are alot of shady dealerships out there. I went to the other dealership and proceeded to get him to put in writing or e-mail that there will be no surprises at closing such as hidden fees. So be careful, dealerships are adding mark ups (fees) to the so called "dealer invoice." You would think with the economy in a near recession, and there are 500+ Tundras sitting on the dealer's lots, they would treat a "qualify buyer" this shabby way. Don't shop at Salinas Toyota: drove 150 miles and wasted 3 hours of my time.
#519 of 838 Re: Need Input ASAP on Tundra Crewmax [surfsunsand]
Apr 07, 2008 (3:14 pm)
There are a ton of Tundras sitting on the dealer's lots: 2007's and 2008's. You can get dealer's invoice pricing by just demanding it, but just make sure at closing, the dealership doesn't add the hidden fees such as $730 for admin, $500 for advertising, $800 for interest/flooring charges for the Tundra sitting on the lot. You are willing buyer; their job is to move inventory! Just don't be eager in the sale and show your desire and emotions. This is a $40k business decision! This is not a "need"; this is a want. If he can't sell it to you at invoice, someone will!
#520 of 838 Backed In fees(hidden fees) at Closing
Apr 07, 2008 (3:25 pm)
Dealerships have found a new way to gouged the consumer. Instead, of adding markups on the car sticker price, they are advertising "dealer invoice" and marking the fees at closing when you are about to sign papers. It is the "nickle and dime" hidden line item pricing at closing: doc fees, admin fees, marketing fees, bank flooring interest, and gas. Before you sign, look at all the line items; it wil turn out to be $2000 on top of dealer invoice. The dealerships get a 3% holdback from the factory or $1200 on a $40k Tundra CrewMax. I have purchased 5 cars at so called "dealer invoice" on the internet, but never encountered this scenario until over the weekend. Stay away from Toyota Salinas!
#521 of 838 Computation of $3000 rebate after tax and license
Apr 07, 2008 (3:33 pm)
The advertised "rebates" by Toyota are computed after the dealership computes the total sales price/tax/DMV fees. The so called $3000 rebates off the 08 Tundras or $5000 off the 07 Tundras are reflected after the final sale. What a joke! More profit to the Toyota dealerships. This also applies to "trade ins". The salesman are trained to talk about retail and fabulous "rebates"; just make sure we're looking at dealer's invoice; the dealerships get paid on unit sales, plus the dealerships get a 3% holdback as profit on the car. There are mo ethics in the car retail industry!
#522 of 838 Re: -0-% finance with hidden fees [justbrowse]
Apr 07, 2008 (11:07 pm)
Let me see if I can break this down for you and simplify/clarify any confusion. It appears that the fees they showed you ARE legit and part of the factory invoice. The marketing fee 'aka' TDA is a regional adverstising fee that the dealership pays the distributor and they are NOT refunded or "kick-backed" any of that money. It can vary by manufacturer, but I can tell you that it is NOT a profit item for Toyota.
If you're in the southeast region, you have to deal with SET (Southeast Toyota) and they do charge an additional Admin fee of ~ $750 on every vehicle as they deal with a different distibutor. I'm sorry if you live in the SET region as they truly do beat to a different drum down there.
The holdback is 2% of the base msrp and Toyota charges a flooring fee called "wholesale financial reserve" which is 1% of the base msrp. These can be negotiated, but they are not "hidden fees" as you mentioned. Salesman do NOT get paid on these charges as they are not comissioned items. Some Toyota vehicles charge $10 for fuel, who's gonna' bark over that $10, especially when you get a full tank which would cost you about $90 if you did it yourself at current fuel prices. Again, these fees are all included on the invoices you put together online, they are just not itemized as detailed as a true factory invoice.
Now, because the dealer probably showed you his "vehicle inquiry report", which is the computerized version of the "hard copy" invoice, it itemizes all the "fees." If you go back and build your vehicle via edmunds or kbb... the holdback, wfr, and gasoline ARE included in the invoice price. Only item that will be missing is the TDA 'cause it varies by region. And, if you are in SET, you have to add the ~$750 admin fee to your build order.
So, when you offered invoice, it appears he gave you invoice (which is what you asked). I'm certainly not taking the dealer's side as I was not there, but the fees you described ARE part of the invoice. Remember, invoice is not cost, but rather an arbitrary number that consumers are able to utilize to see what the market is willing to pay in relation. No salesman, of even a manager for that matter know the true dead cost of a vehicle - the owner and/or the GM (maybe) are the only ones at the dealership that would know that number.
In some cases invoice is a deal, in some case, it's not gonna' happen, but either way, when it's itemized on the FACTORY INVOICE, it's a charge from Toyota or SET, and all though you may think it's BS, they are NOT trying to pull a fast one on you.
The fee you should be worried about is the documentation and processing fee. Here in SoCal, dealers are capped at $55, which is very reasoanble, but in some states, I've seen it as high as $700! Now that's a bogus fee.
In this day and age, you have to negotiate with kindness (but be firm), otherwise they WILL let you walk and you'll never get a vehicle as they know you'll burn 'em on the survey (CSI), which will take even more money out of their pocket.
Please don't take the tone of this e-mail personally, it was simply to edcuate you (and others) how the car biz works (at least from Toyota's standpoint) and how to get a deal w/o thinking the dealer is trying to screw you. Does it happen? You bet - all the time, but I'm simply pointing out that you asked for something (invoice), and he gave it too you. Because you did not understand how the dealership worked, going to the BBB etc. was way over the top. If you wanted to go $1000 back of invoice on a Tundra, he probably would have done it (based on current demand), but $1000 below invoice is $1000 below the numbers he has inked on his factory invoice, not what you "think" his cost is.
'Nuff said... good luck with the next dealer.
Apr 07, 2008 (11:24 pm)
Here's a computerized version of a Toyota factory invoice. At the bottom, you will see all the itemized "fees." If you live in the SET region, an admin fee of ~$750 would be added or in lieu of the TDA. But, for educational purposes, if you were to build this vehicle to it's exact specs via this site, the invoice should match everything except the TDA. Reitterating that the dest., holdback, wfr, and gasoline are already built into the invoice.
18186 VEHICLE INQUIRY REPORT DATE: 04/07/08
DCV920 TIME: 09:51
Model Number: 8352A SERIAL # :8X053419 Check Code: 0
Model Description: DCAB LTD 5.7L V8 Category ..........: G
Year ............: 2008 Current Dealer ....: 110-04136
Interior Color ..: LD13 LD13 Wholesale Dealer ..: 04136
Exterior Color ..: 0040 WHITE Previous Dealer ...: 00110
Body ............: DBL CAB 5.7L LTD Invoice Date ......: 02/08/08
Number of Cyl ...: 8 Ship Date .........: 02/07/08
Allocation Number: 012 Retail Date .......:
Engine Number ...: 5206225 Date of First Use .:
Vessel Number ...: 705 TRAC ..............: NO
Vessel Name .....: TMMTX SANANTONIO Damage ............: NO DAMAGE
PDI ...............: YES
Fleet .............: NON-FLEET
Port PDS Complete .: NO
VIN .............: 5TFBV58148XXXXXXX
Ignition Key.....: N/A
Factory Installed Accessories: FE AL
Port Installed Accessories ..: C4 7J
Vehicle Base Model ....................: $ 38770.00 $ 33923.00
Total Accessories .....................: $ 1048.00 $ 813.50
MECHANICAL & PERFORMANCE
GVWR = 7100 lbs. Payload = 1560 lbs.
Tow Capacity = 10,300 lbs.
381HP/401 Lb-Ft 5.7L DOHC 32V iForce V8
w/Dual Independent VVT-I and ACIS
6-Spd Auto w/Seq Shift and Tow/Haul Mode
Engine Immobilizer, Cruise Control
4WDemand 4x4 System w/Electronically
Controlled 2 Speed Transfer Case
Tow Equip: Hitch Receiver, Supp A/T
Cooler, 4.30 Rear Diff w/10.5" Ring Gear
150A Alternator, A/T Temp Gauge, 7 Pin
Conn, Trailer Brake Controller Prewire
Automatic Limited Slip Diff (Auto LSD)
Front and Rear Sonar
TripleTech Frame: Fully-boxed Fr Section
Reinforced C Under Cab, Open C Under Bed
Coil Over Shock Double A-Arm Front Susp
Multi-Leaf Trapezoidal Rear Suspension
18" Alloy Wheels w/P275/65R18 Tires
6.5'' Double-Walled Bed w/Tailgate Assist
Color-keyed Fr/Chrome Rr Bumper
Chrome Grille/Door Handles/Outer Mirror
Sliding Rr Window w/Privacy Glass
Leather Trim Pwr Heated Front Buckets
Automatic Dual Zone Climate Control
JBL AM/FM 6-CD, 10 Spkrs, Aux Audio Jack
w/Steering Wheel Audio Cntrls, Bluetooth
Power Windows/Door Locks/Mirrors
Remote Keyless Entry & Anti-Theft System
STAR Safety: Pwr Assist 4 Wheel Disc ABS
w/Electronic Brakeforce Distrib (EBD),
Brake Assist, Vehicle Stability Control
with Active Traction Control (VSC+ATRAC)
Dr & Fr Pass Advanced Airbags/Seat Side
Airbags/3 pt Seatbelts w/Pretensioners
& Force Limiters
Roll-Sensing Curtain Airbags (RSCA)
Tire Pressure Monitoring System
Retail Dealer Total
Vehicle Base Model ..........................:$ 38770.00 $ 33923.00 $ 38770.00
50 State Emissions .........................
20" Alloy Wheels w/P275/55R20 Tires ........ 920.00 736.00
Carpet Floor Mats - 4 piece ................ 115.00 69.00
Front License Plate Bracket ................ 13.00 8.50
--------- --------- ---------
Total Accessories ...........................: $ 1048.00 $ 813.50 $ 1048.00
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 685.00 $ 685.00
TDA .........................................: $ 400.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 775.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 387.00
Total .......................................Invoice: $ 36993.50 / MSRP: $ 40503.00
#525 of 838 Re: Computation of $3000 rebate after tax and license [justbrowse]
Apr 08, 2008 (12:42 am)
In regards to the rebates, dealers do NOT get paid on these! They are not profit items. It is subsidized money that comes straight from the manufacturer and is used just like a cash down payment. Every customer gets them, unless they opt for and qualify for a low apr. They cannot "hide them" from you and cash them in. If you do not opt for low financing, you WILL get the rebate - no questions asked. If you want to blame somebody, blame your state DMV, as they are the ones who determine what and how much you're taxed - not the dealer.
In most cases... you get one or the other - the rebate or low apr, which in this case, you said you were opting for the low apr, so the rebate wouldn't have even applied too you.
#526 of 838 Re: Toyota Invoice [ocautoseeker]
Apr 08, 2008 (2:35 pm)
Thank you. Your information is very useful and informative. I stand corrected. The information you provide are not disclosed to the average consumer. The issue I have is the advertisment of low or -0-% financing, but at the back in or at the time of closing, all these above fees are automatically listed and not fully explained upfront. The auto retail game is to keep the customer in the dark and "closed the sale." It is very interesting that when a customer declines the extended warranties or rust proofing additional charges, it is like a slap in the face to the saleman, and next thing on the final signing docs, more additional charges are added. That's my experience with closing. Thanks for your input.
#527 of 838 Toyota's -0-% Financing
Apr 08, 2008 (2:51 pm)
Assuming that you qualify, Toyota's -0-% financing is more a marketing ploy than reality. What I find in my research is that "there are no free lunches", and that's goes for -0-% or low interest rates on auto financing. The additional fees tacked on at closing can be construed as "disguised prepaid interest" in the form of mandatory fees, cicumventing the "truth and lending" requirements set forth by FTC. "Substance over form" in dealing with "structured finance transactions." Assuming you are correct in your assessment of mandatory fees, it is not properly disclosed to the average "joe".