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Luxury Performance Sedans

10007 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#9907 of 10007 Re: Europe vs. Others [shmang] by lexusguy May 04, 2009 (6:43 pm)
Replying to: shmang (May 04, 2009 8:29 am) When you look at the dashboard of Audi, BMWs, they are not as nice (compared to Lexus, even Infiniti and Acura).   Ok, you've lost me here. BMW, when they make an effort, are capable of some very nice interiors. The new 7, the X5, and even the new Z4 are world class inside, better than any Acura or Infiniti by miles. I haven't been impressed by any Lexus interior lately. The LS460 isn't necessarily bad, but it looks rather drab when compared to the likes of the S, 7, A8, or Maserati QP.   The new ES is IMO a big step back from the old one, which had acres of rich wood trim. The new ES has acres of cheap gray vinyl, with a few bits of wood on the doors and console. The ES from the passenger seat is as luxurious looking as a Corolla.   Solid and "retro" (whatever that means) isn't nice or luxurious, but cheap vinyls and plastics, fake chrome and aluminum bits, and cheesy switches and gauges with cheesy lighting is? I guess I just don't understand the young people. I'll stick with Audi over Acura. Replies to this message: shmang (May 05, 2009 5:43 am)
#9908 of 10007 Re: A Friendly Reminder... [jimbres] by lexusguy May 04, 2009 (11:42 pm)
Replying to: jimbres (May 04, 2009 10:43 am) Has anyone driven a BMW 5 & an Infiniti M recently? What are your thoughts?   I drove a 545i back when it was first released, haven't driven one since. I've just never really liked anything about the car. I was a fan of the old 540i Sport, but the current one just doesn't do it for me. The next one due soon will have an improved, X5 style interior and the new iDrive system, but based on what I've seen of the 5 GT concept, it will be dull as dishwater to look at. I'm not sure that going from ugly to boring is really an improvement.   The M I've driven a few times. The styling updates for '08 and the change to white gauges are definite improvements. The 7-speed auto also solves one of its major faults - high revs at highway cruising speeds. That said, the styling still isn't my favorite, and the car is still a little lacking in refinement. If your really interested in the M, I would suggest waiting for the new version due in a year or so.   As of now, I would take the A6 3.0T Sport or Jag XF over the M. Replies to this message: jimbres (May 05, 2009 5:01 am)
#9909 of 10007 Re: A Friendly Reminder... [lexusguy] by jimbres May 05, 2009 (5:01 am)
Replying to: lexusguy (May 04, 2009 11:42 pm) I would suggest waiting for the new version due in a year or so.   Strongly agree. No matter what I do, I won't do it before the end of next year. By then, we should know all about the next-generation M.   Nissan has succeeded in keeping it under wraps. I can't find any pictures - just speculation that there may be a hybrid version & that the M37x will get the 7-speed.
#9910 of 10007 Re: Europe vs. Others [lexusguy] by shmang May 05, 2009 (5:43 am)
Replying to: lexusguy (May 04, 2009 6:43 pm) "Solid and "retro" (whatever that means) isn't nice or luxurious, but cheap vinyls and plastics, fake chrome and aluminum bits, and cheesy switches and gauges with cheesy lighting is? I guess I just don't understand the young people. I'll stick with Audi over Acura. "   Well, this definitely shows your old age there! Also, using words like "fake", "cheesy" does not really proof anything. As an example I can say: "Audi has cheap orange color display, cheesy dark dash with no aluminum/titan, with cheesy switches and gauges - the worst in any car I have seen ever, along with dirt cheap and cheesy interior and exterior lighting is nice? Give me a break!" - Other than the word "Cheap", "Cheesy", what else this sentence tell people - absolutely nothing than the attitude. So is your post - No, this not personal attack, I am just stating the fact, so do not take it personal.   That being said, again, people vote with their wallet and the result does not lie - Acura TL over Audi A4 2.0T any day.
#9911 of 10007 Re: A Friendly Reminder... [jimbres] by art234 May 05, 2009 (6:54 am)
Replying to: jimbres (May 04, 2009 10:43 am) Yes I have driven the 535xi and 528xi recently, as well as the 3 series of each, and the M35x as well. Last time I had my M for service (we won't go there), they brought out a 2009M to compare. Other than the gauges there is no major change from my '06. Still has the 5 speed auto, the ride is actually harder (plus for some), and I still think both BMW's were more balanced and more pleasant to drive overall. For what its worth my friend just got a brand new Maxima last week, and it rode better than the M...with similar technology.   BUT I remind you that while I am very jaded and prejudiced against Infiniti based on my experience, my statement above is relatively objective and trying to be fair. Replies to this message: jimbres (May 05, 2009 9:15 am)
#9912 of 10007 Re: A4 it is [draz2] by tayl0rd May 05, 2009 (8:01 am)
Replying to: draz2 (May 04, 2009 6:17 am) ...   Handling - With SH-AWD it'll outhandle virtually anything out there.   ...   Funny how SH-AWD always receives so much praise, even from the rags. Yet when independent performance/handling numbers are published, the TL/RL are always at the back of the pack.   ... So remind me again just what is it that relegates the TL to a pedestrian class of cars? ...   Because, all in, it's not significantly better equipped or a better value than an Accord V6 EX-L Nav. Replies to this message: lexusguy (May 05, 2009 5:08 pm)
#9913 of 10007 Re: A Friendly Reminder... [art234] by jimbres May 05, 2009 (9:15 am)
Replying to: art234 (May 05, 2009 6:54 am) Good post, Art. Thanks.   While I have no reason to be prejudiced against Infiniti, I am biased in favor of BMW. For one thing, I own a 330i, which has been a terrific car. For another, a friend of mine who is leasing an '08 535xi wagon - probably the only one on Long Island with a stick - has been kind enough to let me spend several hours behind the wheel. I like pretty much everything about the car (except for the over engineered turn signals, which I still haven't figured out). Although it isn't as tossable as my 3 - no surprise there - it's a more comfortable car overall. I'm an older guy now & I appreciate that. It's certainly the best balanced mid-sized car I've driven to date.   I might even buy the car as a CPO after he turns it in late next year.
#9914 of 10007 Re: Lot of Emotion Here [barryend] by art234 May 05, 2009 (12:37 pm)
Replying to: barryend (May 04, 2009 4:44 am) Barry,   Thanks for sharing the experience--I can't wait to get the A4. It will be in hopefully toward the middle of July. I am actually letting my wife drive the M35x until the Audi comes in--the vibration in the drive train doesn't bother her. Then again she does what the dealer recommended -- turns the radio up....
#9915 of 10007 Re: A4 it is [tayl0rd] by lexusguy May 05, 2009 (5:08 pm)
Replying to: tayl0rd (May 05, 2009 8:01 am) Funny how SH-AWD always receives so much praise, even from the rags. Yet when independent performance/handling numbers are published, the TL/RL are always at the back of the pack.   SH-AWD does allow the TL 6MT to be incredibly fast on a track, the numbers don't lie there. Torque vectoring AWD can nearly break the laws of physics, and allow a car that should understeer wildly like a nose-heavy pig to embarrass properly balanced, RWD performance machines.   That said, when it comes to things like road feel, on-center feel and precision, and progressive loading in corners through the steering, and body control and general "tossability", the TL comes dead last, as was evidenced in C&D's recent comparo. The TL may be able to scramble around corners faster, but the driver behind the wheel of a 335i will be having much more fun.
#9916 of 10007 Re: 2007 Acura RL [vavavavolvo] by anon3 May 09, 2009 (6:26 am)
Replying to: vavavavolvo (Apr 23, 2009 4:09 pm) "Your statement that the 5 gets "five stars or a good rating in most other categories in other tests" is simply not correct."   I actually take the time to READ the words in these posts and read the NHTSA ratings. Words have meaning and can be verified. My statement that the 5 Series gets 5 stars or a "good" rating in MOST of the other categories is factual. The NHTSA gave the 2009 5 series 5 stars in 3 of 4 crash tests for passenger sedans. That is "most" and it's a fact, not generalized supposition that tends to substitute for knowledge and experience in this forum.   Like many drivers, you also ignore driving skill, the capabilities of the vehicle, and accident avoidance as a safety factor. Those of us who have spent many, many hours behind the wheel at various tracks and in advanced driving courses know this first hand. Fortunately, Volvo is the perfect car for drivers who rely on the vehicle being a tank to protect them from accidents that they should have avoided in the first place. When you get right down to it... almost every accident is the result of human stupidity, carelessness, inattention, or lack of skill. Personally, I don't believe there are any "accidents". Most are "caused" by driver stupidity and lack of skill.   So I stand by my statement that I will take a BMW over a Volvo any day of the week when it comes to safety. Unlike you, I speak from experience because I own both vehicles and have taken BOTH vehicles through accident avoidance courses. In fact, 3 of the 5 spaces in my garage are occupied by BMWs. So while you may quibble about things that you've read about, I'm speaking from personal hands-on experience. Replies to this message: lexusguy (May 09, 2009 9:25 am) vavavavolvo (May 09, 2009 10:35 am) houdini1 (May 09, 2009 10:40 am)

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