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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
9978 messages, Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 1:30 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: lexusguy (May 01, 2009 7:20 pm) You really seem to like to display your ignorance with statements like, "I actually prefer the Maxima." That would be the same Maxima with that "awesome" CVT transmission that feels like a loose rubber band attached to a flywheel, right? Wow, you're a real car guy. I can tell. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (May 01, 2009 7:27 pm)
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Replying to: draz2 (May 01, 2009 7:32 pm) We're just talking about cars here - not about really important things, like books, music or single malt Scotch. |
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Replying to: houdini1 (May 01, 2009 7:21 pm)
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Replying to: draz2 (May 01, 2009 7:32 pm) Considering their choices, yes, I would say I do. I don't judge an interior by whether the stereo can play DVDs, or whether the NAV system has Zagat ratings and weather reports. There's nothing inherently luxurious about techie-gizmos. I don't take luxury vacations at a Best Buy. The fact is, Acura loads their cars up with tech features as a crutch. They know they cannot compete with Audi, or BMW, or even Lexus when it comes to quality of the leather, or switchgear, or dashboard materials, so they go on an on about how much technology you get as standard. I'm just not interested. The TL is like the Saab 9-3, a quasi-luxury car built on a pedestrian platform that uses smoke and mirrors to disguise what it actually is. It's less transparently shameless than something like a Lincoln MKZ, but that's about as much praise as I can give. |
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Replying to: draz2 (May 01, 2009 7:35 pm) Right, so when its the TL outselling the G, the numbers count. When its the 3 series mopping the floor with the TL, the numbers don't count. Makes perfect sense.
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Replying to: lexusguy (May 02, 2009 12:12 am) Not so with TL. I'd estimate that over 80% of TL sales are just that...sales. 3 series BMW's (in particular) are probably about 75% leases. Apples to oranges.
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It's nice to see such a passionate debate going on here. The Acura TL finished third in my choosing of cars for a number of reasons. First, while it had lots of whistles and bells, I didn't like the ride as much as the Audi. Second, the Audi was laid out better to my taste, and appeared more roomy in the front and back...while the rear seat room of the Acura may be slightly better, the trunk is almost 25% smaller than the Audi's. Third, just because there are more of a particular car on the road doesn't mean its better.....Audi usually holds its value better than BMW because there are fewer out there--they don't flood the market. I will also add that I drove the 335i x drive extensively as did my wife, and we both preferred the Audi. While we're talking 80something horses difference, the A4's performance was more than adequate, and the 2.0 actually outperforms some V6's out there, which is more than enough for me. I am not a horsepower junkie, and found the car to be fast enough for the short on ramps I deal with. Also the Audi's quattro system is about the best all wheel drive around especially in inclement weather--important to me since I live on a steep hill. In the end, I enjoyed the Audi overall better than anything else I drove, and while that is subjective to me, I am very happy with my decision. I am getting the car built to my specs, and it will have the whistles and bells that I like...including 3G MMI, which is far advanced over the 2009 offering. Regarding price, we are estimating the car will cost between $41K and $43K when all is said and done. They changed some packaging and equipment options for 2010, but I have already negotiated hard margin for the dealer ($500 over invoice, with all incentives to me). Choosing a car is totally subjective--what I like you may not. Overall I think I was just done with Japanese cars for a while (the Volvo was my wife's not mine). Also, Infiniti is starving right now, and based on my experience they deserve what they are getting. They are basically a dressed up Nissan with a much higher price, and not much more value. But that's just me..... |
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Replying to: draz2 (May 02, 2009 4:30 am) Infiniti is also getting killed with lease returns, especially on M35's--which is why they are not holding their value. Nissan continually over-residualizes them to get attractive lease rates, and then chokes on them when they come off lease. Another positive note for seeing less of a car on the road--they usually hold their value a little better than mass merchandised cars....but time will tell. |
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Replying to: art234 (May 02, 2009 4:34 am) Passionate debates are what keeps my interest here at Edmund's but some of the rants are amusing. It shows a lot of immaturity because nearly all the cars represented here are great cars and attempting to belittle a certain car does not make another car any better. One other odd thing about this particular debate is that technically, neither the TL nor the A4 is listed here as being a luxury performance sedan! 
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