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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
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Replying to: qbrozen (Feb 24, 2009 8:07 am) Actually it's because the TL, ES, G37, CTS, etc. don't compete in this class. Acura has increased the size and feature content of the TL (making the RL utterly irrelevant in the process) but it's still an entry-level car, one which competes with the ES/IS, G, CTS, C-class, A4, and all the rest. You'll find them all on the entry luxury forum.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Feb 24, 2009 2:46 pm) And as far as the CTS, is it entry level merely because its the bottom rung Caddy? Because I'm pretty sure it is above entry level, at least as far as size is concerned. I don't want to get into (another) debate on what does or doesn't belong here, but it is a grey area sometimes, to be sure. I think, to my point above, the ES is not here, not because it is entry level, because its NOT entry level as long as the IS exists, but because its not a performance sedan. Same could be said of the TL. That is, at least, if we reserve "performance" for RWD .... OHH... wait. But then we have the S80 listed here ... ugh.
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Replying to: qbrozen (Feb 24, 2009 2:55 pm) I'm sorry, but the ES isn't here because it just isn't a mid-lux car. Whether a car is performance oriented, or what wheels are driven doesn't matter. Let's not forget that the A6 is technically available with FWD, but it is still firmly a mid-lux sedan. Entry-lux means $35-50K. They can overlap somewhat in size with the mid-lux class, usually depending on whether they are built specifically for the North American market. The NA specific cars such as the CTS, TL, and ES tend to be larger than the world market cars. Both the ES and IS are entry level. The TSX is also entry level. Acura competes in the entry class with two cars, just as Lexus does, but in a different way. The IS is Lexus' entry performance sedan, while the ES is the entry luxury car. Instead of offering engine choices, Acura offers the TSX to compete with cars like the IS250, A4 2.0T, etc. and the TL to compete with the IS350, A4 3.2, etc. Mid-lux cars range from $45-70K. Every single one except for the RL offers a V8, which is one of the many reasons why the RL has never been more than an also ran. While its true that a vast majority of buyers opt for the V6, you still have to at least offer a V8 if you want to be taken seriously.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Feb 24, 2009 2:31 pm) That said, I have seen some argue here that the very best set up for snow/ice is rear wheel drive with 4 snow tires. This argument never made much sense to me but it is out there. |
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the Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans discussion, which hasn't had a lot of traffic lately. That's where we are covering some of these cars that aren't really in this class. 
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Replying to: houdini1 (Feb 25, 2009 6:18 am) any comments?
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Replying to: clarence10 (Feb 25, 2009 7:32 am) Most auctions have gotten very sticky about who they let in... Your buddy just saying you are an employee usually won't work any more. Most dealers have to submit a list ahead of time, of authorized employees who can attend the auction. In my experience, it takes a lot of homework, an unlimited CarFax account and access to the Manheim website to get the pre-sale information. Then, you'll need your friend to be willing to go on the day you find the cars you are interested in. Plus, the faith that he'll remember the options that are important to you, and what options/colors are deal killers. I have a co-worker who has a dealer's license... I've known him for over 20 years, and I still won't take the chance. regards, kyfdx visiting host
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Replying to: houdini1 (Feb 25, 2009 6:18 am) That makes absolutely no sense. There simply is no substitute for AWD in bad weather. Tires also help, and not all AWD systems are created equal. From what I've seen and read, Quattro is the best there is on snow and ice. |
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Replying to: houdini1 (Feb 25, 2009 6:18 am) Rubber gets harder when it gets cold (and as it ages), and snow tires shouldn't be used when it regularly gets above 50-degrees becasue they would get too soft and wear fast. Because of the softer rubber, they grip much better in the snow and ice. An all-wheel drive vehicle may give you false confidence starting, but can't stop any faster than a front or rear-wheel drive car. Have you ever tried to go up a steep, slippery hill with a front-wheel drive car? Could be tough. A rear-wheel may not be much better, but will be some since the weight transfer is rearward, but no comparison to an all-wheel drive car.
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Replying to: james27 (Feb 26, 2009 4:29 pm) I always have to chuckle when I read comments like this. Years ago before front-wheel drive cars were commonplace, I owned one of the first in my neighborhood. One night while I was out there was an ice storm. The last block of my drive home was a long hill. I was the only one of my neighbors who was able to make it up the hill. Everyone else abandoned their rear-wheel drive cars and walked home. |
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