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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
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Replying to: carnaught (Oct 22, 2007 3:32 pm) As far as dealers, yes, I have visited the Infiniti store here a few times while shopping and I always seem to get someone who knows very little about the cars, etc. or someone who just insists that you buy the car NOW and puts on the hard sell. Remember that this is just my experience and things like this are very subjective. |
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Replying to: og_oggilby (Oct 22, 2007 6:28 am) The RL is a very flexible vehicle. You can drive it smoothly for most driving and you can toss it in the twisties with the SHAWD. The grip is amazing, never a tire squeal. The car has a smoothness and relaxed feeling that many who desire performance do not appreciate. I would call the RL a sporty touring lux-tech sedan. It is stable, safe, solid, wonderfully built, and confident when I want to get on it. Only you can make your decision. The RL has grown on me in the last year that I am more excited driving it now than I was when I traded my 05TL for it. The TL was edgey, but not refined and US assembly was not on par with the RL. I wanted a more sophisticated, refined ride. If you require the best of any one thing, the RL may not suit your needs as it is simply great at many things. And yes, it is a low seller, and underappreciated, but you should get what you want. I, personally have no less enjoyment of this car because it does not meet the standards of others or the masses (most of who paid much more for a not much more scoot. I only chimed in to offer my opinion as we shared similar attributes for a new car (from your original post). Many here do not appreciate the RL, which is fine (the didn't write the check), but don't decide for what others want, get what you want. There are enough sour grapes around here to open a vineyard. Whatever you get, I hope it pleases you. |
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Replying to: og_oggilby (Oct 21, 2007 8:37 am) If it is a BMW, you can even "buy" the required maintenance from BMW that will extend the 50,000 maintenace. You will have yourself a vehicle that will be somewhat lower in initial cost and will have ALL costs for perhaps 100,000 be -- to you, out of pocket, that is -- $0. This "bought and paid for" insurance does not increase the reliability nor decrease the desirability of such a car. This approach simply mitigates your monetary expenses. Our BMW and Audi experience would tend to trak with your expectations: these cars (and I am certain not ONLY these cars) are breathtakingly expensive to maintain and repair outside of the mfgr's programs. But, with all due respect to the reputation of some of the other cars (those, perhaps from Japan), they too are expensive to maintain and repair -- despite some anecdotal evidence. CR currently has downgraded the Lexus G's, in fact. Even the Audi A6 retains a "recommended" status, as if that means much (CR is great at picking dishwashers however.) The point is, the LPS class of cars discussed and disected daily here are probably more alike than they are different. Each brings personality traits to the party -- and you have to decide which ones suit you best. The Lexus, TO ME, is the one I would pay the least amount for -- for it is too serene in the performance department. The Infiniti is the Japanese BMW and the Acura is the Japanese Audi (sorta, and only sorta since it is, fundamentally a FWD car, the FWD bias is so strong, whereas the Audi, even at present is a 50-50 biased ride.) The Cadillac, with that new V6 DI is, presently, heavily discounted and already comes with a 100,000 powertrain warranty -- and the Acura, as noted, has received very favorable reviews despite lackluster sales (it looks like a plump Accord to many of us.) Perhaps the Cadillac is worth a harder look, for value alone -- and it can be equipped with both technology/performance bits and AWD. Perhaps, despite its Accord leanings, the Acura RL also is worthy of your consideration for the value prop alone. If money were not in one's way, it is hard to resist the 535x. But for performance, luxury and fun an A6 4.2 SLine if one can be found, would be a great ride -- and about 15 minutes per year can also be a great value. Bang for the buck -- ???? Well, again the new CTS 3.6DI AWD with the FE2 suspension and the lux package is "almost a BMW 5 series" -- at least if you evaluate cars largely by their wheelbase and width. |
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Replying to: og_oggilby (Oct 21, 2007 8:37 am) 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm) I look forward to the decision you make for yourself....It`s been a long time...Although I enjoy my Audi, the wife`s bmw 535xi would be my choice for a really long term ownership experience....The interior is not so great, but also not terrable...There is a longevity with them that I think Mr. og would benefit from....I would also doubt that the car would break after a lot of miles, unless abused and neglected.....If you or I had to choose a car for (say ten years) and live where it snows alot, there is no doubt in my mind that the bmw would still be a fun car to get into every day....The only real downside would possibly be the taxes he would pay( I have no idea)....Sounded to me like he wanted to buy a new car.... I have always respected your opinion, so I am sure Mr.og will benefit from your thoughts Tony |
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Replying to: vavavavolvo (Oct 22, 2007 6:46 am) The problem is a 16 year old Legend and a new RL are very different cars. Old Legends, properly maintained, were easily as reliable as an LS400. Even the first generation RL was basically bulletproof. A real snoozebox bore-machine, but certainly reliable. The new one however, is not. Ratings for the '05s and '06s were mediocre at best, no better than BMW or Audi. To Acura's credit, they have improved to above average this year, but the Acura way used to be perfection from day one, not "we'll try to have all of the problems fixed by model year number 3." One of the mags, I believe it may have been C&D, had a long term tester RL that had eight unscheduled dealer visits for electrical problems in a period of a few months. In early Acura history, that kind of thing would be unheard of. Not anymore. Ever since that transmission disaster with the TL and CL, Acura quality has gone way down hill. I would bet that after year 10, let alone 17, the RL's electrical systems would require repairs costing $3K+ |
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Replying to: og_oggilby (Oct 22, 2007 8:23 am) Why not buy another? Last gen GS430s are very affordable, and unlike the new car, their record is spotless. Just buy a new NAV DVD from the dealer, and you're good to go.
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Replying to: og_oggilby (Oct 22, 2007 6:28 am) In my opinion, no. I haven't spent a ton of time behind the wheel of the car, mostly because of how bland the driving experience was. Unlike the M, the RL cannot disguise its weight. It rolls badly in corners, and though SH-AWD tries its best, all that weight over the front axle just leads to understeer, understeer, understeer. Even Audi would call it overly nose heavy. The engine isn't necessarily a bad one, but it's just not a match for the Lexus or Infiniti 3.5 V6s. There's not enough torque, and its too far up in the rev band, so the car generally feels sluggish and out of breath when compared to the gutsy and aggressive Infiniti V6 or the smooth and turbine like Lexus V6. When you consider the '08 Accord V6, things just get ugly. The Accord is just as fast, is lighter, fuel economy is much better, it looks better, the interior is, let's face it, basically the same with a bit more restraint, and its larger inside and more comfortable. In the fun to drive factor, I'd rank the current crop thusly: 1. BMW 5, 2. Infiniti M, 3. Audi S-line 4. Mercedes E Sport 5. Cadillac STS 6. Lexus GS350 7. Volvo S80 V8 8. Acura RL 9. The rest of the GS line. The Jag XF is of course a question mark, but if it handles anything like the XKR, it should be fun.
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm) OK, I'll bite... What do you mean here? 15 minutes per year? Thanks, - Ray Somewhat confused .....
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm) Sounds like you are a Cadillac fan, do you have one? My understanding is the Cadillac 100,000 powertrain warranty is for 5 years and I plan (hope) to keep my next car for at least twice that. Supposedly powertrain reliability in Cadillac's is not so great. I took a look at CR's Lexus GS reliability history. Pretty strange findings. The bad marks are with "Squeaks & Rattles", "Power equipment and accessories" including cruise control, heated or cooled seats, body control module, keyless entry, wiper motor or washer, tire pressure monitor, interior or exterior lights, horn, gauges, 12V power plug, alarm or security system, backup camera/sensors and "Audio System" meaning Nav systems, radio speakers, CD or DVD player and changer, cassette player, antenna, satellite radio, video screen, communication system. There apparently is a problem with squeaks & rattles in all of the GS models. The strange thing is that the ratings for "Power equipment and accessories" and "Audio System" in the rear wheel drive GS are rated better than average. I would think that they would be the same since I doubt that Lexus would put a different Audio system in the awd version than they put in the rwd GS. I think your "CR is great at picking dishwashers however" might be dead on.
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