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Luxury Performance Sedans
Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#9496 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [og_oggilby]
Oct 22, 2007 (4:31 am)
I am hoping to buy and keep my next car for as many miles as I can - over 200k or more if possible. I am not a high mileage driver (12k a year at most)
Honestly, I think what you are suggesting is prescription for disaster. The average 1990 200K mile BMW 5 may still start when you turn the key, but today's 5 is about a million times more complex than its 17 year old counterpart. Nobody is going to give you an extended warranty for that long.
Reliability for the Acura RL has improved from the lousy '05 and '06 years, but all of those electronics are still going to have problems eventually. On top of that, the RL is really a mediocre car. I can't think of a single thing it does better than any other car in the segment. 17 years with one would amount to torture. Sure its cheap, but the TL is cheaper - and better. You mentioned fuel economy as a sticking point, the RL's FE is no better than the Infiniti's.
Reliability for the AWD GS350 is so bad that it lost its recommended rating from CR, thanks to multiple below average scores. Hell has frozen over, a new Lexus has scored far worse in CR than both BMW and Audi. The GS is the worst new Lexus in the company's history, this is a serious black spot on their record.
If I had to be stuck with one of the current crop of LPS, my choice would be an '08 M45x. It's great fun to drive, and has best in class reliability. My suggestion though, is to buy a slightly used CPO car. Get the BMW if you like it. Drive it until the CPO warranty runs out, and then get rid of it. Is the buying experience so horrible that you want to be stuck with a 200K car that constantly needs repairs costing far more than its even worth?
#9497 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [tamparl]
Oct 22, 2007 (7:28 am)
tamparl - thanks for the info. to be honest I haven't looked at Acura yet. I will check out the RL. For the last 3 years I have been driving a Camry XLE V6 which is extremely reliable and is the most boring car I can imagine. It has taken the fun out of driving. That is why I am looking for something more entertaining to drive now. Is the RL fun to drive?
#9498 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [anthonyp]
Oct 22, 2007 (7:34 am)
Thanks Tony, I will look into the long term warranty. Normally I don't believe in them but in this case it might be worth it.
#9499 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [lexusguy]
Oct 22, 2007 (7:34 am)
If you want warranty coverage, and you don't do it yourself, stick with leasing...it costs more but you do not have to worry about selling or costly repairs out of warranty.
The cheaper way is to buy and sell in 3-4 years but considering the resales value, it's more or less risky depending on, well, the dependability and desirability at the time of resale.
Look at what is selling now in your target vehicle class. IMHO, the choices at the top of this category are the Merc E, BMW 5, and the M's from Infinity. These should return at the upper end of value after you decide to sell because of the higher demand and dependability. This could change but it should be a good guide unless you wait 17 years to resell!
#9500 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [lexusguy]
Oct 22, 2007 (7:46 am)
" but all of those electronics are still going to have problems eventually. On top of that, the RL is really a mediocre car. I can't think of a single thing it does better than any other car in the segment. 17 years with one would amount to torture"
I wouldn't bet against Acura reliability, for electronics or anything else. I have a 16 year old Legend which in its entire lifetime the check engine light came on once...only once....(and promptly reset itself after I restarted the car). The car is still a joy to drive.
I also can't think of a single thing it does better than any other car in the segment. It is just very good at everything it does, making it a great car to drive and own.
#9501 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [lexusguy]
Oct 22, 2007 (9:23 am)
lexusguy... it is pretty sad that it seems there isn't a car that is worth keeping long term in this price range. I know the M and G Infiniti's get good reviews, but I don't care for the interior dashboard styling, the gas mileage is really bad, and the 0-60 times are not as good as they should be (not that I will be racing). Since I am sure that gas prices will continue to rise over the next few years that will be a big factor.
As far as the buying experience being so horrible, it really depends on the dealer/salesperson. I just don't enjoy the experience like I used to. Researching, test driving, and then trying to get the best price is very time consuming and can be quite frustrating.
I have waited 3+ years to buy a new LPS and and am not all that thrilled with the choices. I did find the Lexus GS350 to be disappointing and have read the CR review, which is grim considering the Lexus reputation. You might be right about Hell freezing over. The GS350 was going to be my fall back car if I couldn't find something more fun to drive. I don't know how soon Lexus can fix the problems the GS has. It is a shame that my 2002 GS got rear ended a few years ago (17k damage and it was never the same) or I would still be driving it and not going through this right now.
#9502 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [circlew]
Oct 22, 2007 (9:50 am)
OW, you make a good point.
I am not big on leasing since I can't write it off at all. I know that a car isn't a very good investment. At this point the idea of buying a nice/fun car, paying it off, and not having car payments for awhile is very appealing to me. If I need to sell it in 3-4 years then I am back where I started. The problem is that there is no perfect car, most people are partial to the brand they are driving, and everyone has different taste in vehicles, which can make it difficult to find useful reviews. The luck of the draw enters into it also. It is possible to get a car that will run forever or a lemon no matter what car you choose. Some brands and models improve the odds of getting a "good" one more than others...
#9503 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [og_oggilby]
Oct 22, 2007 (10:04 am)
Although this class is a bit above my budget, Iíll pipe in.
The RL is decent enough but not all that fun to drive.
The Infinitis gas mileage is not great or even good through the entire lineup.
I have dropped Lexus, I was checking out the ES, and the reliability is very disappointing and they havenít found fixes for the various problems despite their attempts.
After all of this, the E Class 320 Blue Tec. Very good gas mileage (diesel), very good power for passing, not too noisy, nice riding, maybe even a little sporty very comfortable front and rear seats. Reliability seems to be getting better. Pricey though.
I am reading this forum to find a suitable CPO, and then try to convince my wife that it would be a good idea.
I too, am looking for a vehicle that would be good for the long run, 8 to 10 years of ownership.
#9504 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [justbass]
Oct 22, 2007 (10:49 am)
justbass - thanks for piping in! I was looking into the BlueTec but read this on the MB web site: The 2008 E320 BLUETEC does not meet the emissions requirements of California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, or Vermont and is not available in these states.
...my wife and I live in Taxachusetts
I am getting the feeling that cars are being built as disposables these days. I don't know what happened to Lexus's reliability other than they realized they make a lot more money servicing them than selling them.
#9505 of 10338 Re: Best LPS to buy and hold on to? [og_oggilby]
Oct 22, 2007 (2:49 pm)
The GS that got the bad review was the AWD GS350. If you can live with the GS RWD, it was rated pretty good and way above average. Must be problems with the all wheel drive.
Also the GS hybrid was rated as the most reliable car of all in this group! Go figure!
The RL was also rated very high in reliability.
Dealerships can vary widely by city but my experience has been that Lexus is tops with Acura not far behind. Infinity I would have to rate poor.
All new cars are a bad investment. A good late model CPO from Lexus would be better. Maybe the LS? You save a ton on depreciation, get virtually a new car warranty and they still treat you like a king.