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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10006 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:59 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: dewey (Apr 04, 2007 1:05 pm)
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Replying to: james27 (Apr 04, 2007 2:19 pm) Thanks for your input. It appears that this topic is starting to drift a bit off topic, so I'll now inject my opinions (and the best part of opinions is that they're ALWAYS right). The Acura RL (and TL), in my opinion is a fine car, but really does nothing for me in regards to exterior design, and the interior design is all about the distractions, as are most of the japanese brands (huge screens, too many buttons). This could explain the RLs lagging sales. The german sedans, with I-Drive, MMI, and COMAND, are guilty of their own crimes. But they drive so well, it *could* be possible to forgive them...if only they weren't so expensive to repair, if you can find a good tech. For me, maybe it's time to shop American. The '08 CTS looks promising, and if the current ride (9 years, 120K) holds on until then I'll give it a spin. Thanks again for your input. Great Forum! |
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1. 3 Series - 11,259 2. G35 - 7,992 3. ES350 - 7,444 4. TL - 5,769 5. IS - 5,077 6. CTS - 4,881 7. C Class - 4,486 8. A4 - 3,783 9. MKZ - 3,626 10. TSX - 3,232 Taken the 2 classes together, BMW is undisputed king of the sports sedans, Infiniti is king of the Japanese sports sedans. TSX is really cutting into TL sales. Why not just drop TSX, and offer a 2.5 V6 option with TL? Acura really needs a RWD platform to compete in the higher division. My guess is when a Lexus sports sedan, GS or IS, comes out, pent-up demand is strong from Lexus loyalists. Once that's satisfied, there's not much demand from cross shoppers with BMW, Infiniti, etc. There probably will be minimal demand for the hi-price, hi-power 'F' series. Audi's worldwide sales are fantastic, might overtake BMW soon. But as usual, can't catch a break here. With strong overall sales, Toyota, Honda and Audi can afford to miss out on their GS, RL and A6. But GM got to hit a homer with STS and CTS, with trucks and SUV sales slumping. CTS's a single, STS's an out.
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Replying to: mariner7 (Apr 05, 2007 9:30 am) As long as buyers are staying with Acura, I'm not sure it matters whether they go TSX or TL. The TL cannot have a smaller engine with less power than the Accord. The TL needs at least AWD. Saab Viggen torque steer is not a positive attribute for a sports sedan. As long as Acura continues to half-effort the RL, it will be the same sales disaster it has been since day 1, RWD or no. They let the last one languish on the market for a decade. I just dont think Acura really cares about the RL.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Apr 05, 2007 1:03 pm) IMO that's just not good enough. Unless Acura can make AWD autos as well as Audis then yes I agree. But they dont. Acura should offer RWD and AWD on their TL just like most their competitors. Please Honda, spare us the excuses and instead start building a rwd platform for the next generation TL (aint gonna happen--just wishful thinking on my part)
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Replying to: dewey (Apr 05, 2007 6:07 pm) To be fair, Audi has been in the AWD game just a tad longer than Acura has, and it took them 25 years to figure out that if they push the torque to the rear wheels, their cars will handle better. The RDX shows though that Acura can do a decent handling AWD product that is not based around a front-mid engined RWD platform. It would be very smart for Honda to do a multi-purpose RWD platform like Nissan's FM, but in their typical way they'd rather devote enormous resources to the NSX, and continue to just slap Acura badges on the Accord.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Apr 05, 2007 11:34 pm) Audis biases that are not well hidden have been more a by product of the engine's placement and the front weight bias. I know it is all the rage these days to claim RWD biased AWD, but I would have rather Audi (years ago) had just decided to keep the Torsen system at 50 50 and figured out a way to even out the weight distribution. Of course if they do both -- which they claim they are keen to do (and the A5/S5 does offer some hope in that regard) all the better. My 50% 50% split A6 doesn't feel like an FWD vehicle because the torque split is 50-50, rather its "FWD-ness," if that is what it is, is due to its weight distribution problem, which is the root cause of the understeer -- understeer that Audi engineers do an almost unbelievable job of taming. Moving the engine back a few inches will help Even better and smarter suspension designs, etc keep on coming from Audi perhaps because of necessity. If an Audi were as well balanced as a BMW. . .well it makes me shiver to think how they would drive and handle. So, Audi sold 100,000 cars last month -- first time in history. The cheapskate in me knows this ultimately means the bargain train I have been driving all these many years has left the station. Gone, or soon gone, are the days when my neighbor's inline 6 cylinder 5 series with several, but not all, choice options was the same price as my V8 A6 with all possible options AND AWD. The price (for me) of Audi's success is -- er, expensive. What are the odds I'll be able to lease a $53K Audi next time for no money down, 15K/36/mo for $640/mo? Slim just left town. But, congrats to Audi -- man, if they make the A6 closer to 50 50 weight distribution, just imagine. 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Apr 06, 2007 11:32 am) Right, but at the other end of the spectrum you have ATTESA E-TS, where the front wheels don't get any torque unless deemed necessary, which give the G and M a RWD feel. The RS4's torque distribution does seem to improve its handling even with the engine still hanging over the front axle, so I don't think Audi's decision to go 40\60 with the torque was just a marketing gimmick to keep up with the Joneses in Munich.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Apr 06, 2007 12:31 pm) If all the brouhaha about the push back of the engine in the A5 is more shack than yack, AND if they are able to shift the weight rearward, well, we may have something. The G and M (and I am a fan) seem to have some drive-line lash or "lip synch" problems since they don't seem to act until there is that ever so slight loss of friction. Under the circumstances most of us have to live with, I would (were I somehow granted a magic wand) want a well balanced and real time RWD biased AWD vehicle. The 5x series is darn close. After all these years though, "nothing satisfies, quite like BEEF -- it's what's for dinner." Yet, if Infiniti wants to gift me a M35x, I'm there! 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Apr 06, 2007 4:45 pm) The one thing that bugs me about the Infiniti AWD cars is that you can't get the sport package with them. I know in the past BMW xi cars with "sport" were mostly just big wheels and sport seats, has that changed? Even if a G35"xs" could come with the G35s wheels and seats, that would be better than nothing. The standard 17s don't flatter the new G at all, there's way too much sidewall for a modern sports sedan. |
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