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Luxury Performance Sedans

10007 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#9250 of 10007 Re: Partial March sales figures [lexusguy] by dewey Apr 03, 2007 (6:35 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Apr 03, 2007 5:49 pm) Similarily to the updated MB E Class I would have thought that the new and improved Lexus GS350 would have higher sales. But that is not the case for both these models. I am sure CR's verdict has more weight on the sales of Lexuses than on the sales of the German marques. Despite MB being the lowest of the low in terms of CR's ratings their total sales have increased .   The charts provided by Toyota linked below appear to have an error. On the March 07 sales list there are no Lexus GS350s? I guess the GS300 figures represents the GS350 figures?   Lexus Sales
#9251 of 10007 Re: Partial March sales figures [dewey] by habitat1 Apr 04, 2007 (2:54 am)
Replying to: dewey (Apr 03, 2007 6:28 pm) BMW M5 sales dropped 66 percent to hit a grand total of 128 cars for March.   I'm not sure you can make much of a singel month comparison for a limited production car like the M5. I was in a large BMW dealer last week, and when I asked if they had any unsold 6-speed M5's, they indicated their was still a 6+ month wait.   That said, I do not think the current M5 is as revered as the previous model, notwithstanding it's great V10 engine. The interior layout of the current 5 series and the i-drive gymnasitics you have to go through to tap into all 500 horsepower would be a turnoff to me. I believe that BMW needs to re-think making the 3 series and 5-series into more driver oriented cars from an interior design and functionality standpoint.   And they really need to re-draw the 6-series. It is butt-ugly, literally and figuratively. Someone parked a Toyota Solara next to a 650i in front of the dealership and the two looked way too similar from the rear. Replies to this message: dewey (Apr 04, 2007 11:59 am)
#9252 of 10007 Re: Used vehicle choice, MB 320 CDI vs BMW 530 vs Audi A6 3.2 Quattro [briantucson] by markcincinnati Apr 04, 2007 (4:15 am)
Replying to: briantucson (Apr 02, 2007 5:53 pm) Your prefs and biases will surely virtually dictate what you do regardless of what we say.   The fact that you are going for a used car will also limit the population of cars you can acquire, too.   You didn't mention any "need" (different than a preference) for AWD.   Knowing what I know, reading (too much) of what I read and seeing all the bytes we post here on edmunds and elsewhere, I would say "none of the above."   I would also say, if you think 10 years and continue to think your posted choice, you CAN afford a new car.   Right now, the Acura dealers (those with inventory) are on a tear with the new MDX, RDX -- the RL's are gathering dust.   The RL is, considering content and performance, moving up the value scale every day.   A new RL stands a better chance of being the best choice (thinking of money) for the 10 year journey than any of these used Germans.   The BMW may be eligible for an extended BMW brand warranty (beyond mere CPO'ing which you would have to do with any of these.)   The Audi, and I have one, seems, to me, at 34,000+ miles to be as tight and "new" as it did the day I leased it.   My lease runs out in 14,000 miles (I bought 3,000 extra to get me through to the end "just in case" I don't bail out a few months early.)   My current A6 (2005 3.2) is the first car in a long time, I would actually consider keeping a year or so longer.   But, these Germans are "breathtakingly expensive" to keep out of warranty. And after the service pack runs out, heck even an oil change is a $100 affair.   The MB CDI has something going for it in that the engine OUGHT to go the distance. Small comfort if everything else around it becomes a vacuum for money.   You can afford a new RL -- they're giving them away.   $11 down, $11 a month and if you don't have the $11, we'll loan it to you. Come one, come all to Kash's Big Bargain Barn Acura dealer, just a mental block and a bridge from downtown Cincinnapolis.     Replies to this message: rayainsw (Apr 04, 2007 5:48 am) dewey (Apr 04, 2007 1:05 pm) james27 (Apr 04, 2007 2:19 pm) briantucson (Apr 04, 2007 5:00 pm)
#9253 of 10007 Re: Used vehicle choice, MB 320 CDI vs BMW 530 vs Audi A6 3.2 Quattro [markcincinnati] by rayainsw Apr 04, 2007 (5:48 am)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Apr 04, 2007 4:15 am) "You can afford a new RL -- they're giving them away.    $11 down, $11 a month and if you don't have the $11, we'll loan it to you. Come one, come all to Kash's Big Bargain Barn Acura dealer, just a mental block and a bridge from downtown Cincinnapolis. "   You crack me up. So - when you 'retire', you'll be sellin' cars - right? - Ray Willing to drive most any distance just to see THAT . . .
#9254 of 10007 Re: 535xi vs 350 4matic [bruceomega] by kivi Apr 04, 2007 (10:30 am)
Replying to: bruceomega (Apr 03, 2007 12:01 pm) Yea sorry I noticed that a while after my message had posted. We tested the 530xi, but after hearing that the 535xi was soon on the way, I would have been very interested to compare it to the 530xi. Guess I just had 535 excitement on the brain when I typed that post. In reality however we still would have ended up getting the M35x because for us (Canadian) the cost of the similarly equipped 530xi was about $82k vs $67K for the M35x.
#9255 of 10007 Re: Partial March sales figures [habitat1] by dewey Apr 04, 2007 (11:59 am)
Replying to: habitat1 (Apr 04, 2007 2:54 am) and when I asked if they had any unsold 6-speed M5's, they indicated their was still a 6+ month wait   If that is the case then the low M5 sales is a due to some supply issue(too low production levels).   I believe that BMW needs to re-think making the 3 series and 5-series into more driver oriented cars from an interior design and functionality standpoint.   I agree. The best car that will fit your above description could be a 1 series M Class. Due to BMW history I guarantee such a beast will not be called an M1.   I dont know how the idrive is in the M5 but I do know how it is in my wife's BMW 530xi Touring. It's not bad at all once you get used to it. Also the dashboard is not so cluttered with buttons.   Having said that I love the simplicity of my non-idrive BMW335i sedan much better. The only options I chose for my car is a sport package and metallic paint. Any other option for me is a frivolous waste of money.   By the way do you have any idea if the new M3 will have idrive as standard?
#9256 of 10007 Re: Used vehicle choice, MB 320 CDI vs BMW 530 vs Audi A6 3.2 Quattro [markcincinnati] by dewey Apr 04, 2007 (1:05 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Apr 04, 2007 4:15 am) But, these Germans are "breathtakingly expensive" to keep out of warranty.   Maybe? Have you actually owned an Audi out of warranty?   In my particular case for the last quarter of a century I've owned many German cars out of warranty and so far my wallet remains intact. If my experiences were otherwise then I would not have bought two new German cars last year.(I am a frugal fellow by nature who hates spending a lot of money on repairs)   Maybe my positive experiences has something to do with having a great independent auto mechanic that specializes in BMWs? I avoid the dealerships like a financial plague. Replies to this message: james27 (Apr 04, 2007 2:19 pm) briantucson (Apr 04, 2007 5:00 pm)
#9257 of 10007 Re: Used vehicle choice, MB 320 CDI vs BMW 530 vs Audi A6 3.2 Quattro [dewey] by james27 Apr 04, 2007 (2:19 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Apr 04, 2007 1:05 pm) Mine was (98 A6), and I replaced it with an Infiniti. Too soon to tell if it was a good choice! I realize the new ones are better, plus a different chassis. But, I didn't fit, either. Replies to this message: briantucson (Apr 04, 2007 5:00 pm)
#9258 of 10007 Re: Used vehicle choice, MB 320 CDI vs BMW 530 vs Audi A6 3.2 Quattro [james27] by briantucson Apr 04, 2007 (5:00 pm)
Replying to: james27 (Apr 04, 2007 2:19 pm) All,   Thanks for your input. It appears that this topic is starting to drift a bit off topic, so I'll now inject my opinions (and the best part of opinions is that they're ALWAYS right).   The Acura RL (and TL), in my opinion is a fine car, but really does nothing for me in regards to exterior design, and the interior design is all about the distractions, as are most of the japanese brands (huge screens, too many buttons). This could explain the RLs lagging sales.   The german sedans, with I-Drive, MMI, and COMAND, are guilty of their own crimes. But they drive so well, it *could* be possible to forgive them...if only they weren't so expensive to repair, if you can find a good tech.   For me, maybe it's time to shop American. The '08 CTS looks promising, and if the current ride (9 years, 120K) holds on until then I'll give it a spin.   Thanks again for your input. Great Forum!
#9259 of 10007 The other sports sedan class by mariner7 Apr 05, 2007 (9:30 am)
1. 3 Series - 11,259 2. G35 - 7,992 3. ES350 - 7,444 4. TL - 5,769 5. IS - 5,077 6. CTS - 4,881 7. C Class - 4,486 8. A4 - 3,783 9. MKZ - 3,626 10. TSX - 3,232   Taken the 2 classes together, BMW is undisputed king of the sports sedans, Infiniti is king of the Japanese sports sedans.   TSX is really cutting into TL sales. Why not just drop TSX, and offer a 2.5 V6 option with TL? Acura really needs a RWD platform to compete in the higher division.   My guess is when a Lexus sports sedan, GS or IS, comes out, pent-up demand is strong from Lexus loyalists. Once that's satisfied, there's not much demand from cross shoppers with BMW, Infiniti, etc. There probably will be minimal demand for the hi-price, hi-power 'F' series.   Audi's worldwide sales are fantastic, might overtake BMW soon. But as usual, can't catch a break here.   With strong overall sales, Toyota, Honda and Audi can afford to miss out on their GS, RL and A6. But GM got to hit a homer with STS and CTS, with trucks and SUV sales slumping. CTS's a single, STS's an out. Replies to this message: lexusguy (Apr 05, 2007 1:03 pm) dewey (Apr 05, 2007 6:07 pm) lexusguy (Apr 05, 2007 11:34 pm) and 16 more...

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