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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10006 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:59 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jan 05, 2007 9:12 am) Yes, the new G interior appears to be a big step up in my limited experience with it. But I still think the TL interior can play in the same ballpark as any of its peers. Except, of course, for the CTS. That is just in a league of its own, interior style/material-wise!  My next car, maybe it's time to let go and go RWD: BMW 3 Convertible or rumored Lexus IS Convertible??? |
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Replying to: domenickamarc (Jan 05, 2007 6:46 am) The BMW 530 was making do with 225HP while the A6 was offering 255HP -- this disparity went beyond 7 months as I recall. The Lexus GS was really low and late to the HP race and despite a 300HP (rated) V6, the Acura RL couldn't get no respect in the grunt dept either. Audi, across the line, has played in the same HP league as its rivals most of the time. Indeed, for a long time an Audi 4.2L A6 was the same price as a i6 Bimmer 5 series. And, the Audi S6 in the comparo's is HOW many thousands OVER $10,000 less than the BMW and Merc? Audi still came in first and second in two auto mags comparos both times bettering in the rankings the BMW. Audi seems to be waiting to offer us an RS6 again, but one can only speculate that when it does it will offer wrath of god kind of HP and torque, once again upping the ante. Why wait? I dunno. The RS4 seems to be well respected and reviewed yet, to me, it is hard to justify its price. The S6, by comparison, seems like a bargain. My current burning concern is there is no counter-punch to the "35" BMW engine. The V10 S6 is the new winna and champeen from my point of view especially at its price point. |
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I agree that Audi's biggest problem is exposure. I just sent an email to AOA railing them for their ridiculous ED program. It's not even close to BMW's in price, or content yet BMW is their biggest competitor. I think they shoot themselves in the foot often times by not being competitive with leasing, and such.
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Replying to: dhamilton (Jan 05, 2007 5:19 pm) M
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Replying to: merc1 (Jan 05, 2007 5:55 pm) |
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I read the line "single mode 'old lady' Servotronic steering kills the entire otherwise great car" with keen interest. You see, in 2005, after months of test driving cars from Europe, Japan and the US, we came to find that both BMW and Audi had some vehicles we could really enjoy. The BMW sub-venting machine was offering a $47K vehicle for $581 per month for 36 months 45K miles with no upfront money essentially. Audi for a less than $45K vehicle was about $100 more, same deal. We liked the BMW just fine and, well, the $100 was enough motivation. A series of back to back test drives in BMW's without Servotronic led us to configure and order a new BMW EXACTLY as we wanted it. We did not, however, order the car with Servotronic. A friend of ours who worked as an intern at the local BMW dealership told us we should have ordered the car with Servotronic which would "transform" the car from good to great. A further google of Servotronic, BMW+Servotronic, etc, led us to specific reviews of Servotronic equipped vehicles and specific reviews of the car we had ordered with Servotronic. For example, "The optional Servotronic steering is flat-out wonderful. It's speed-sensitive, adding more assist at low speeds, and invisibly altering the steering ratio, so the car turns more with less steering input. Parallel-parking is a breeze, as are quick, mid-block U-turns. As speed increases, assistance diminishes and the ratio slows, making for good on-center feel and sure lane changes. Perhaps most telling about the Servotronic steering is its transparency; unless a driver moves directly from the [Servotronic equipped BMW] to another vehicle without the feature and suddenly has to crank in more steering at slow speeds, it'll likely not be noticed at all." At the time, I had a 2003 Audi allroad that was coming off lease. One of the things the Audi lacked was road speed sensitive steering boost. Indeed, it seemed, in the Audi, that the steering boost was ENGINE speed sensitive. I guess the theory is that when the car is in the first two or three gears (mine was a 6 speed manual) the RPM's are higher hence the boost would be higher at lower speeds. Sort of true. But the thing is, as the Audi went faster and faster (road speed), the RPM's even with the 6 speed also climbed above 2,000 and the effect was [apparently] the steering boost remained. This, then, might account for an "old lady" personality in any car so equipped. I cannot verify that this 2003 Audi called this Servotronic. Indeed, Servotronic is typically capitalized because it is a technology that Audi, BMW and other manufacturers purchase and implement on their vehicles. My experience with our new BMW as of May, 2005 was that "Servotronic" was a major improvement in road feel at speed and a welcome assist at low, slow or no speed. We were able to alter our ordered car to ADD Servotronic steering since our order was less than a week old. When I then ordered a new Audi A6 3.2, I noted the brochure specified that Servotronic (capitalized and trade marked) steering came standard in US bound versions of this, the latest and newest generation of Audi A6's. My impression is that BMW charges extra (not much in the case of our 2005 BMW) for Servotronic and that many of the dealer's agents (like our intern friend) know that it is a transforming (in a positive sense) technology that they, for their own personal BMW's, would not forego. "OLD LADY?" heck, I don't know if there is "BMW Servotronic" and "Volvo Servotronic" and "Audi Servotronic," or not, but I do know that our two 2005 MY German cars both have Servotronic and that a back to back drive with a BMW that has it vs one that does not is eye opening. Drive the Audi A6 with it and a BMW without it and the BMW feels "less nimble." Now, does this rise to the characterization of "old lady"? I guess this may be in the hands and arms of the individual, but I would urge anyone buying one of these cars to check off the Servotronic option (if such is on an option list), NOT avoid it. With only these experiences and the reviews of some folks who write about cars for a living as my guide, I return to the question, is there such a thing as "servotronic" and "Servotronic" steering and that one implementation (Audi's apparently) is "old lady" like and others' not so much? 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jan 06, 2007 6:15 am)
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jan 06, 2007 7:42 am) I've thought that in the Q7 as well. Now the X5 [07] has wonderful steering, but is to "enthusiastic" [nervous] IMO to make it a worthy, long road trip vehicle. I think Mercedes gets bashed a lot for heavy steering, with no feel, but that's what makes them great touring cars. No need for constant corrections. All of these are a better alternative to Lexus which is like eating a fine meal, on a paper plate. [with an excellent waiter] |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jan 06, 2007 7:42 am) |
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Replying to: allagaroo (Jan 06, 2007 9:11 am) Lower lease payments, MORE technology (don't know about "better," though) and "close enough" to German feel for jazz (at $200 per month less, hell yes!) Then Audi, for an almost $3K more expensive model came in UNDER the Infiniti price on the lease -- and "all I had to do" was threaten to buy the Infiniti, which I sort of already had done. The phone rang, the dealer said "what will it take and some $200 in monthly payment melted away as if by magic. That was then, this may be different. But, I came off a 2003 allroad with a mo pay of about $790 (including tax) and went to a $53,286 A6 for about $640 including tax. The Infiniti was $677 same deal. The Audi, the German cars generally, have a feel, a taughtness and with Audis expertise in AWD an "edge" that no Infiniti (at this point), no matter how high up the food chain doesn't quite match. Yet, to be clear, the Infiniti was close to that BMW/Audi feel, so close that for the price diff the Infiniti went from being #2 to #1 and ONLY when Audi dropped the price per mo did my former #1, return to #1. My Audi A6 3.2 with all options save sport suspension  is the best Audi I have ever had in almost every way. My most loved and fun Audi, however, remains my 1995 S6 -- but from a technology, quality and fit and finish standpoint, the C6 A6 is lightyears ahead of the '95. There was just something about that RUSH of power from the 5 cylinder 20v turbo, that causes me to mist up. In other words, I hear you, I was there, I've been there and done that. If Audi will come down in price for you would you reconsider? 
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