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Luxury Performance Sedans

10338 messages,  Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 883 of 1035

#8817 of 10338 Re: . [sidv]Audi boring???????? by allagaroo

Dec 02, 2006 (10:51 am)

Replying to: sidv (Dec 02, 2006 6:59 am)
Well I've had 2 A6 2.7T's. A 2000 and a 2003 with very minimal repair issues. I had 5 series BMW's for 14 years and a Q45 until the Audi's. The twin turbo's give you 0-60 in 6.6 and good passing power. They also develop max. torque from 1800rpm to 3800rpm. The quattro makes the car feel very firmly planted and I drive it hard. It is fabulous in rain or snow which gives me a very secure feeling. Great trunk room and the rear seats go down also. I think a good looking car with benchmark interior. My lease is almost up and prices are way up and no more twin turbo offered so I am looking at other all wheel drive options particularly the M35X but I would hardly call the Audi boring by any stretch of the imagination.

#8818 of 10338 Re: . [sidv] by lexusguy

Dec 03, 2006 (8:26 am)

Replying to: sidv (Dec 01, 2006 5:28 pm)
Your point about specific platforms is utterly meaningless.
 
I only mentioned the fact that Lexus actually has cars which aren't just rebadges because you seemed to be bashing Lexus for rebadging Camrys (which are mostly just gilded Camrys anyway).
 
The 9-5 is not a great value, nothing that old is worth what Saab is charing for it, (although I'm sure dealers are knocking thousands off the sticker). If by "sharper" you mean better handling than anything Lexus has, fraid not. The IS350 will cream the 9-5 in both acceleration and handling. Saabs are quirky cars for quirky people. They've never been able to do performance cars properly, they'd have to dump FWD for starters, which Saab is loathe to do. The best "performance Saab" in recent history was the 9-3 Viggen, and that was a terrible car.
 
The sad truth that Saab fanatics cant seem to accept is that Saab is already dead. Thats why Saabs generally aren't even invited to comparison tests anymore, a last place finish is pretty much guaranteed. The current Saab lineup is for people who aren't into cars and should drive Malibus or Trailblazers instead, but their egos won't let them. Volvos are still Volvos. Saabs are just Chevys with a Swedish badge on them, (and now a GM badge on the side, incase you couldn't tell already who made it).

#8819 of 10338 Re: . [lexusguy] by warthog

Dec 03, 2006 (3:33 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 03, 2006 8:26 am)
"Saabs are quirky cars for quirky people. . . for people who aren't into cars and should drive Malibus or Trailblazers instead, but their egos won't let them."
 
Careful! You'll be severely disciplined.

#8820 of 10338 Re: . [warthog] by lexusguy

Dec 03, 2006 (4:10 pm)

Replying to: warthog (Dec 03, 2006 3:33 pm)
Just returning the favor. The difference between Lexus and Saab is that Lexus has a purpose. Their cars appeal to those who value quality and service above all else. BMW does performance better than anyone else, Mercedes does luxury and prestige, and Lexus does quality and service.
 
What does Saab have that no one else has, what do they do better than anyone? Nothing. They at least used to have a sense of off-beat individualism, but thats long gone.

#8821 of 10338 Re: . [lexusguy] by sidv

Dec 03, 2006 (6:42 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 03, 2006 8:26 am)
OK, so the Lexi are not all Camrys, they are Highlanders, Aristos, FourRunners, Landcruisers and who knows what else, but except for the SC430 (which looks like a bloated frog carcass and was featured in the book "The worst cars ever made", and possibly the LS, they are all Toyota-based. Not too exciting of a starting point to me.
 
I KNEW you'd mention the Malibu, but it's a tired and weak (non) comparison. The ES and Camry essentially share powertrains with minor variations and are clearly related in the sheet metal. The 9-3 and Malibu share a platform, that is it. No sheet metal, no engine, no transmission, no interior pieces-they are far, far more differentiated than the ES and Camry. The 9-7 is questionable, I don't dispute that, but no more or less so than the GX or EX and better looking than either.
 
Regarding the 9-5, no I meant the looks of it, not the handling. Styling is purely subjective, but to me Lexus is incredibly uninspired across the line, even by the low standards of Asian manufacturers, whereas Saabs are unique in a way I appreciate. Other, conformist-minded individuals like yourself may not appreciate it but that's fine with me. The IS is a completely different car than the 9-5 with a different mission, they are not even remotely comparable except on theoretical price which illustrates how much more car (the 9-5 is more ES or GS sized) you get for the money with Saab. The IS is a tiny little thing with blah styling, incomparably tacky "chronograph" style instrumentation (or did they get rid of that in the new one?) and has the worst back seat in its class. The 9-5 is a veritable limo in comparison. A better comparison would be the ES which is so obviously a Camry all I can think when seeing one is the old adage about the fool and his money. I'll take the 9-5 any day, you keep your gilded Camry with its silly "L" badge.
 
I for one live where it snows and REQUIRE FWD (or AWD). So, kudos to Saab for sticking with the FWD vs RWD. Speaking of coming in last in comparisons, check out the new Car and Driver comparison test including the LS430. It came in dead last with SUV-like stopping distances so perhaps you should quit casting stones.
 
Saab is not dead, it's not in its glory days but it's far from dead. That is silly hyperbole and about as big of an overstatement as one can make. As point of fact, there are no GM badges on 9-3s or 9-5s nor do I believe the 9-7 has them either.
 
As to the PURPOSE of Saab's, they are good cars for people who find lowest common denominator styling such as Lexus offers not for them, people who prefer FWD and people who like turbo charged motors and the combination of efficiency and power they bring. I happen to be all of these, hence Saab is a better choice than Lexus to me and more than likely always will be.

#8822 of 10338 Re: . [sidv] by markcincinnati

Dec 03, 2006 (9:04 pm)

Replying to: sidv (Dec 03, 2006 6:42 pm)
I am often wrong, but never uncertain: I am certain, at this point, that SAABs are not in the LPS pack, regardless of their status as living OR dead or nearly dead or not.
 
I assume your passion is genuine -- perhaps this is just not the forum to express it.
 
Lord knows I have been a champion of the Audi brand which, until recently was either in jeopardy of losing its LPS status (and for some folks, I'd wager they aren't too keen on it being there in the first place) or is such a recent entrant that it is "on probation." A few years ago, I saw a ranking of cars (this was in Audis literature or attributed to Audi) that placed Audi, SAAB and Volvo in the "possible to join the club" status. Most folks that get paid to opine on this subject finally allowed Audi to join when the C6 was brought to market. FWIW, the current Acura RL has just become an LPS club member, too.
 
As far as I know, neither SAAB or Volvo have products that are at this moment in the LPS crowd. Near-premium or entry level-LPS, perhaps.
 
It is perhaps true, too, that FWD "only" cars need not apply (and, I, for one, happen to believe for practical purposes this is a bit unfair) for they seem unable to convince "anyone" (well, hardly, anyone) that they can play in a field that has Performance as one of its criteria. The current RL, by virtue of its AWD (or SH-AWD) is another case in point (and the lack of a V8 is sometimes cited as a reason the RL is a "poser" despite the fact that most of the Audi A6's, BMW 5's and Mercedes E's sold are 6 cylinders (for all I know this is true of the Lexus GS and Infiniti M's too.)
 
Were someone to give me a SAAB, I would be quite happy to accept it. I do suspect, however, that at this point in time SAAB automobiles are considered (again by those who shape opinions and who get paid to do so) great cars circa 1999.
 
Born from jets? Perhaps a cool marketing idea. But. . .SAAB doesn't offer cars that are much in touch (competitively) with what is being put forth by "these other guys" discussed on the LPS forum (even Lexus.)

#8823 of 10338 Re: . [markcincinnati] by lexusguy

Dec 04, 2006 (6:57 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Dec 03, 2006 9:04 pm)
As far as I know, neither SAAB or Volvo have products that are at this moment in the LPS crowd. Near-premium or entry level-LPS, perhaps.
 
Actually I think the new S80 qualifies Volvo as a genuine LPS player. (It is on the list at the top of the board after all). The last one definitely not, but now that it offers a V8 and AWD, and the price can go over $50K, its a LPS, at least as much as the RL is, if not more so.
 
The 9-5 on the other hand is like the TL or ES. Big for an entry-lux car, but still entry-lux, and not on this board.

#8824 of 10338 Re: . [lexusguy] by warthog

Dec 04, 2006 (4:31 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Dec 03, 2006 4:10 pm)
Lexusguy: I think you mistook my point. I was just being a bit sarcastic--poking a stick at the PC that is often enforced around here. You know we're not allowed to generalize about owners from the cars they drive.
 
 I don't give a flip about Saabs or Lexi.
 
Ducking now.

#8825 of 10338 Re: . [sidv] by maxhonda99

Dec 05, 2006 (6:11 am)

Replying to: sidv (Dec 03, 2006 6:42 pm)
Right on, Saabs rule. People just don't see how unique and awesome Saab cars are. I especially think the Saab 9-7 is marvelous.

#8826 of 10338 Re: . [maxhonda99] by qbrozen

Dec 05, 2006 (11:54 am)

Replying to: maxhonda99 (Dec 05, 2006 6:11 am)
You're right, I don't see how "unique" a Trailblazer ... i mean Rainier ... I mean Envoy ... I mean Ascender ... I mean 9-7x is.

Messages Page 883 of 1035

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