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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 28, 2006 9:10 am) As the post above mine mentions, I think the GS is more S80 size. As it stands, unfortunately, volvo is very much like Acura in the sizing department. Similar to comparing the RL to the TL, the S80 and S60 aren't that far apart. (and, likewise for the S40/60 and TL/TSX.) Its not the noticeable jump in size you see with something like the Benz S-class, Bimmer 7-series, or A8. I would like to see volvo come out with a large sedan. Unfortunately, however, they'd have to call it the S100.  and that just don't have a good ring to it. They DID, IIRC, have an S80 Executive, or some such name, that added a couple of inches. I'm not sure of when exactly that was produced, in what numbers, or the added cost, however. But maybe they'll do that again with the new design??
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Replying to: qbrozen (Nov 28, 2006 11:53 am) Hard to say. They could bring back the short-lived S90 tag, rather than S100, which I agree is a bad name. I don't see it happening any time soon though, Volvo has too many other cars that need redesigns or refreshes. I also don't think there's any demand for a big Volvo in the first place. They already have one loss-making niche vehicle in their lineup. |
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The Volvo S80 is Volvo's LPS entry as far as I can tell. It may not rise to the L or the P of the LPS sedans chewed about on this forum. At worst it is a "near"-LPS car. The newest version with a V8, AWD and most of the features and creature comforts afforded LPS owners probably is a "contender." But, despite its V8, et al, it probably would not be included in many Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, Automobile comparo's. And it certainly would not be included in the Audi, BMW, Mercedes flagship comparisons (such as the one in the new C&D where the Mercedes was #1, Audi #2 (one point shy) and three other imports bringing up the bottom -- with the new Large Lexus solidly in 5th place (out of 5). I would probably be happy to take an S80 for a test drive and who knows, I may be so impressed (if it is priced "right") that I might even consider one -- somehow, I doubt it (yea, that is a pre-conception.) There is no Volvo I know of that would "legitimately" be compared by a shopper looking at a A8L or BMW 7 by any stretch of the imagination. The Phaeton may it R.I.P., probably was a "legitimate" lux, flagship car -- apparently coming from VW was one of its worst sins, tho.  Now if we're going to get nuts here, I looked at the new C&D with its "10 Best" cars and saw (again) the Chrysler 300 listed as "the best sedan money can buy" (or something almost as powerful.) And, when I first saw the 300C tested on the Speed Channel, it was compared (by the host) favorably to both the BMW 7 and Audi A8 cars -- in terms of its size and driving dynamics. At the time, I thought that was over the top -- come to think of it, I still do. Does the 300C merit an honorable mention or even "wannabe" mention in the annals of LPS-dom? Most of us would say, "probably not," would be my guess. This "Premium" Saloon Class (LPS as we are wont to call it) is tough to break into. It seems to me that Audi, Saab and Volvo (and maybe Acura) tried to break in for several years. The 2005 models seemed to have accomplished that for Acura and Audi. Volvo is debatable and Saab, well, you know. 
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Replying to: cstiles (Nov 27, 2006 5:17 pm) One, when I read a book or an article about "classic cars," a vicarious pleasure is the diversity of auto-desire. Consumers seemed to revel in the many different styles, models, experiments in automotive design and engineering. By comparison, we appear to have entered a chapter in automotive history in the U.S. where multiple forces conspire to make the image of "desirable car" homogeneous in the minds of a majority of consumers. Two, when BMW introduced the 2002 forerunner of the 3-series in the 1960s, Car and Driver, in particular, really got it. By "it" I mean the excitement of the appearance of a new category of car, not nearly as fast in a straight line as the muscle cars that were generating much of the excitement in those days, but able to provide a type of driving pleasure to a married couple with kids, previously not seen in a sedan. It didn't matter that it wasn't going to go from zero to 60 as fast as a Dodge Hemi or a GTO. There were multiple ways for a car to be great. Too much now of tsk, tsk, what a shame for all the German cars that, for example, the Infiniti cars accelerate faster; "game over" as one, to me, silly auto-mag article tried to collapse the whole car experience. And, similarly, for most of us here, how much does it matter which $75-$90K car accelerates fastest? Is there even any relationship between some group of editors assessment of the S6 versus the M5 versus the MB E63 and the pleasure any one of us might be deriving (and talking about on this forum) from driving one of the "regular" versions of those cars in our everyday lives?
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 28, 2006 1:54 pm) How about waiting until the car has been driven by real people for a few months and see whether the car mags are actually going to include it in a comparo with any of the favorites in this neighborhood? On paper it is certainly a contender. By price it is a contender. Will it drive like one? We'll see soon enough. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 28, 2006 8:24 am) It's interesting to see the Germans offering V8 and V10 motors with forced induction. That's the only way they can up the horsepower to be king of the 0-60 and 1/4 mile mountain. But turbo's are prone to create longer term reliability issues. So far, the Japanese have eschewed turbocharging (not counting the Acura 4-pot engine). Volvo may aspire to swim in the LPS ocean, but they have to reinvent their image in the minds of consumers. If anything can scrub away images of IKEA, Birkenstocks, and lutefisk, I suppose it just might be that sweet Yamaha V8! I'm amazed that Saab manages to stay in business. They must sell a lot of cars on the East coast. In most other locales, you're more apt to see a Saab engine on a commuter plane, instead of on the interstate. Speaking of changing the image of Volvo, I saw a great bumper sticker in Seattle last weekend. It was on the back of a Volvo V70 and it said "Cheney Satan 2008." Couldn't stop laughing....
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Replying to: domenickamarc (Nov 28, 2006 1:59 pm) In 1991 the Motor Trend car of the year was the Chevy Caprice Classic. They may be in denial over that today. |
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Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 28, 2006 9:34 am) Our family drove a VW Jetta for 130,000 relatively care free miles. Is there a specific reason, other than one forum participant's Audi having worn out at 100,000 miles, to assume that an Audi wouldn't last as long as a VW? I think it's a stretch to claim an experience with one car is a good predictor of what the majority of owners will experience. It might or might not be. I cannot find any database of repair frequency and cost for cars post-80K. In the absence of such data, all we have is anecdote and the myth of Japanese cars run forever with little or no repair costs. I find, in conversation, as many believers in the myth than German engines and drivetrains run forever.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 28, 2006 8:24 am) Totally disagree with that because I've seen otherwise. True a German car may need more maint to get that point, but "major life support" that is stretching it to put it mildly. The thing is Japanese cars is that they will last that long as far as their guts and hardpoints, but their interiors and bodies usually look awful and the leather has begun to crack in so many places you can't begin to keep track of it anymore. M
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