Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#8709 of 10348 Re: Mazda versus Audi reliability? Something odd here. [fonefixer]
Nov 09, 2006 (10:09 am)
"Despite my individual problems with the Audi brand, indifferent dealer service really pushed me to another model. Old fashioned customer service may be alive and well with many dealers, I just didn't get to that level through Audi."
Very critical point you are making there. Both patients receiving medical care (bringing their bodies in to be fixed) and car-owners (having problems with their cars) are both consistently reported to place great weight on how the expert relates to them and responds to their concerns, separate and apart from how quickly/completely the desired end-result is reached.
JD Powers assesses this dimension of owner-satisfaction separate from vehicle dependability (number ofd repairs required during first three years). In their 2006 survey of owner satisfaction with dealer service departments, here's how they ranked brands (based on a 1,000-point scale):
Lexus - 912
Buick - 911
Cadillac - 909
Jaguar - 908
Lincoln - 906
Mercury - 905
Saturn - 904
Pontiac - 903
Audi - 890
MINI - 890
Volvo - 890
Acura - 889
Chevrolet - 887
Infiniti - 887
Porsche - 887
BMW - 884
Honda - 883
HUMMER - 882
Saab - 880
GMC - 879
IndustryAverage - 873
Mercedes-Benz - 872
Hyundai - 869
Chrysler - 867
Ford - 866
Dodge - 862
Toyota - 861
Subaru - 858
Jeep - 851
Nissan - 849
Mitsubishi - 848
Kia - 843
Mazda - 843
LandRover - 840
Suzuki - 823
Volkswagen - 810
Isuzu - 781
Statistically, then, not only did your Audi require way more than the average number of repairs, but also you were treated much worse than the average Audi owner. That is a double-whammy shame and would, if I were you, produce the same effect in me -- never doing that again.
#8710 of 10348 Re: Mazda versus Audi reliability? Something odd here. [sfcharlie]
Nov 09, 2006 (11:17 am)
In their 2006 survey of owner satisfaction with dealer service departments, here's how they ranked brands (based on a 1,000-point scale):
Interesting, but not surprising how badly Toyota did. Their dealerships are awful.
#8711 of 10348 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domenickamarc] [markcincinnati]
Nov 09, 2006 (12:42 pm)
IMO, it's miles, time, and perhaps more importantly, that nebulous thing called "pride of ownershp." In other words, how carefully the car is driven and owned. Note the top scores for service dept satisfaction...
Lexus - 912
Buick - 911
Cadillac - 909
Jaguar - 908
Lincoln - 906
Mercury - 905
These rankings are partially based on the quality baked into the brands/vehicles themselves. The average owners of Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lincoln, and Mercury are also older, more mature, perhaps more conservative, and certainly more likely to visit their dealer based on the recommended service cycles.
The AVERAGE owners of the bottom feeder brands are younger. Does being younger also correlate to being less responsible, less mature, and more risk taking? A lower level of "pride of ownership?" Is the car more of an appliance or commodity, with a lower intrinsic value to the owner? Could those behaviors also correspond to worse experiences at the dealership because the cars are being brought in for problems rather than routine maintenance?
#8712 of 10348 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domenickamarc] [markcincinnati] [cstiles]
Nov 09, 2006 (1:02 pm)
I also believe the manufacturers at the bottom also reimburse less to the dealers.
#8713 of 10348 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domeni
Nov 09, 2006 (1:20 pm)
The average owners of Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lincoln, and Mercury are also older, more mature, perhaps more conservative, and certainly more likely to visit their dealer based on the recommended service cycles.
I don't think owners of the above cars are more mature or more likely to take better care of their cars than Mercedes or Land Rover owners.
#8714 of 10348 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domeni [lexusguy]
Nov 09, 2006 (8:58 pm)
Possibly Mercedes, but I doubt it as far as Land Rover is concerned. I question whether Land Rover appeals to relatively older drivers, or even enjoys strong loyalty or repeat customer purchase patterns, at least in the U.S. market. It's more of a trendy vehicle that appeals to uber-rich soccer moms, relatively younger nouveau riche, urban professionals, athletes, and "athlete wannabes."
Watch the Land Rover owners come out of the woodwork to rebut these controversial comments!
Another correlation can be drawn with insurance rates. Although higher in insurable value, average insurance costs for Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Mercury are historically lower on a percentage basis, compared to cars at the bottom of this ladder (whose insurable values are much, much less). This phenomenon can be attributed to two main factors---more conservative (ie: safer) driving behavior, and higher credit scores/characteristics, for those who drive those brands. Jaguar used to enjoy this status, when more of their sales were represented by XJ and other larger models or higher end coupes. With the advent of the down market S-Type and X-Type, insurance costs have risen due to the fact they have appealed to a younger and more diverse clientele whose driving behaviors are not necessarily as stellar on a historical basis.
As the saying goes, "you are what you drive."
Land Rover insurance costs are also much higher than average, and it's not because these vehicles are driven off road or in an African safari. Draw your own conclusions, but high theft rates would be a good place to start.
#8715 of 10348 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domeni [lexusguy] [cstiles]
Nov 09, 2006 (9:35 pm)
"The demographic snapshot of a Land Rover customer is an executive or entrepreneur with an income around $100,000 plus."
The average Land Rover buyer is 43 years old. Sixty-six percent are male, 75 percent are married, and less than 40 percent of owners have children.
#8716 of 10348 Re: VW and Audi [sfcharlie]
Nov 12, 2006 (7:24 pm)
You should check out the latest Consumer Reports "recommended" list for new cars. You will find Audi has the most most models recommended easily besting BMW, MB (none recommended at all), and Lexus. The A3, A4, A6, and S4 are all on the highly recommended list. You can see that in the link below.
This is an important aspect for the future as the unreliablity argument does not hold. As for dealers, all the Audi dealers in my area are either stand alone, becoming stand alone, and are all going through major build-outs and rebuilds. So, let's move forward and let the old misconceptions die as that is all they are- misconceptions.
#8717 of 10348 Re: VW and Audi [reality2]
Nov 13, 2006 (6:40 am)
Many thanks for bringing that link to our attention. It suggests another point, that facile comparisons of "the Germans" or "the Japanese" just don't hold any more. As you note, Audi is very well represented among the "highly recommended" (good drivers, reliable, good crash tests), and not a single MB is even "recommended."
#8718 of 10348 Re: VW and Audi [reality2]
Nov 13, 2006 (8:54 am)
I had to go back to Oct 21 to read what I had written.
It wasn't intended to be at all pessimistic about Audi. Mainly, in so far as I commented on Audi, it was to make the point that it hasn't always been to Audi's advantage to be part of the VW conglomerate, but that Audi was doing very well, worldwide, despite that handicap.
Recently, the head of Audi was named as head of all VW, which, hopefully, will allow Audi to actually buy ad space to boast about how good it has become. The new sexy dealerships are also a good sign. This is a brabnd for which I have been rooting over the years, somewhat like the Red Sox fans before 2004. The brand has definitely begun to emerge from its underdog status to being seen in the way that kbb wrote about the new A6: "In the world of premium performance sedans, the Audi A6 is a thinking person's choice. Placed against such powerhouse names as the BMW 5 Series, Lexus GS and Mercedes-Benz E-Class, the A6 stands proudly as an equal capable of delivering on every level...The real difference between the A6 and its rivals can be found inside the car. Envied for its warm, inviting interior, the A6 offers its occupants a world of fine leathers, high-quality wood detailing, pleasantly accommodating seats and an array of sophisticated conveniences that leave little for the driver to do except enjoy time behind the wheel."