Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#8706 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domenickamarc]
Nov 09, 2006 (8:45 am)
And from what I can tell, we need to add Acura, BMW, Cadillac and Lexus to the list.
Having said that, my in-laws have a "flawless" 1997 Cadillac (the big one with front wheel drive.)
It has perhaps 70,000 miles on it and yes it has had new tires and brake pads and maybe even rotors, but basically the car -- such as it is (i.e. a front wheel drive sofa on wheels) is in perfect condition.
Is it MILES or is it time that is the enemy?
And as a follow on, we seem to NOT have many STS participants herein -- are the buyers of such vehicles not into blogging with other LPS folks? Are the STS drivers lurking and laughing at us Euro and Japaense LPS folks with our "breathtakingly expensive" to maintain cars?
I actually drove an STS at least two times, and I thought it was a member in good standing of the LPS crowd -- at least if optioned appropriately to put a bit more "P" into the equation. . . .
#8707 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [530ir1150r]
Nov 09, 2006 (10:07 am)
"My 2002 530i SP 5sp still has over 50% of the pads remaining. My brake job cost is $0 plus two brake fluid replacements."
That's also how it works with 2001-2006 Audi vehicles (all of which came with included-in-purchase-price replacement of normal-wera items such as wiper blade inserts, brake pads, clutch lining and light bulbs and also includes wheel alignment, wheel balance and headlight adjustments. Runs for 4 years or 50K and costs $500 on 2007s.
#8708 of 10338 Re: Mazda versus Audi reliability? Something odd here. [sfcharlie]
Nov 09, 2006 (10:46 am)
I purchased the Mazda Cx-7 having no idea about the frequency of repairs. I'm mostly covered for 6 yrs/100,000 miles, but as far as trips to the sevice bay, who knows?
Even so-called "highly rated" vehicles like Toyota can have serious repair issues. I know a mechanic who bought a Toy Rav-4 3 years a go and after 6,000 miles, the engine seized up due to lack of oil pressure. Toyota refused to cover the repair claiming the oil changes weren't done through a Toyota dealer and the mechanic stopped making the payments, therefore the vehicle was repo'd!
Despite my individual problems with the Audi brand, indifferent dealer service really pushed me to another model. Old fashioned customer service may be alive and well with many dealers, I just didn't get to that level through Audi.
#8709 of 10338 Re: Mazda versus Audi reliability? Something odd here. [fonefixer]
Nov 09, 2006 (11:09 am)
"Despite my individual problems with the Audi brand, indifferent dealer service really pushed me to another model. Old fashioned customer service may be alive and well with many dealers, I just didn't get to that level through Audi."
Very critical point you are making there. Both patients receiving medical care (bringing their bodies in to be fixed) and car-owners (having problems with their cars) are both consistently reported to place great weight on how the expert relates to them and responds to their concerns, separate and apart from how quickly/completely the desired end-result is reached.
JD Powers assesses this dimension of owner-satisfaction separate from vehicle dependability (number ofd repairs required during first three years). In their 2006 survey of owner satisfaction with dealer service departments, here's how they ranked brands (based on a 1,000-point scale):
Lexus - 912
Buick - 911
Cadillac - 909
Jaguar - 908
Lincoln - 906
Mercury - 905
Saturn - 904
Pontiac - 903
Audi - 890
MINI - 890
Volvo - 890
Acura - 889
Chevrolet - 887
Infiniti - 887
Porsche - 887
BMW - 884
Honda - 883
HUMMER - 882
Saab - 880
GMC - 879
IndustryAverage - 873
Mercedes-Benz - 872
Hyundai - 869
Chrysler - 867
Ford - 866
Dodge - 862
Toyota - 861
Subaru - 858
Jeep - 851
Nissan - 849
Mitsubishi - 848
Kia - 843
Mazda - 843
LandRover - 840
Suzuki - 823
Volkswagen - 810
Isuzu - 781
Statistically, then, not only did your Audi require way more than the average number of repairs, but also you were treated much worse than the average Audi owner. That is a double-whammy shame and would, if I were you, produce the same effect in me -- never doing that again.
#8710 of 10338 Re: Mazda versus Audi reliability? Something odd here. [sfcharlie]
Nov 09, 2006 (12:17 pm)
In their 2006 survey of owner satisfaction with dealer service departments, here's how they ranked brands (based on a 1,000-point scale):
Interesting, but not surprising how badly Toyota did. Their dealerships are awful.
#8711 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domenickamarc] [markcincinnati]
Nov 09, 2006 (1:42 pm)
IMO, it's miles, time, and perhaps more importantly, that nebulous thing called "pride of ownershp." In other words, how carefully the car is driven and owned. Note the top scores for service dept satisfaction...
Lexus - 912
Buick - 911
Cadillac - 909
Jaguar - 908
Lincoln - 906
Mercury - 905
These rankings are partially based on the quality baked into the brands/vehicles themselves. The average owners of Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lincoln, and Mercury are also older, more mature, perhaps more conservative, and certainly more likely to visit their dealer based on the recommended service cycles.
The AVERAGE owners of the bottom feeder brands are younger. Does being younger also correlate to being less responsible, less mature, and more risk taking? A lower level of "pride of ownership?" Is the car more of an appliance or commodity, with a lower intrinsic value to the owner? Could those behaviors also correspond to worse experiences at the dealership because the cars are being brought in for problems rather than routine maintenance?
#8712 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domenickamarc] [markcincinnati] [cstiles]
Nov 09, 2006 (2:02 pm)
I also believe the manufacturers at the bottom also reimburse less to the dealers.
#8713 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domeni
Nov 09, 2006 (2:20 pm)
The average owners of Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lincoln, and Mercury are also older, more mature, perhaps more conservative, and certainly more likely to visit their dealer based on the recommended service cycles.
I don't think owners of the above cars are more mature or more likely to take better care of their cars than Mercedes or Land Rover owners.
#8714 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domeni [lexusguy]
Nov 09, 2006 (9:58 pm)
Possibly Mercedes, but I doubt it as far as Land Rover is concerned. I question whether Land Rover appeals to relatively older drivers, or even enjoys strong loyalty or repeat customer purchase patterns, at least in the U.S. market. It's more of a trendy vehicle that appeals to uber-rich soccer moms, relatively younger nouveau riche, urban professionals, athletes, and "athlete wannabes."
Watch the Land Rover owners come out of the woodwork to rebut these controversial comments!
Another correlation can be drawn with insurance rates. Although higher in insurable value, average insurance costs for Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, and Mercury are historically lower on a percentage basis, compared to cars at the bottom of this ladder (whose insurable values are much, much less). This phenomenon can be attributed to two main factors---more conservative (ie: safer) driving behavior, and higher credit scores/characteristics, for those who drive those brands. Jaguar used to enjoy this status, when more of their sales were represented by XJ and other larger models or higher end coupes. With the advent of the down market S-Type and X-Type, insurance costs have risen due to the fact they have appealed to a younger and more diverse clientele whose driving behaviors are not necessarily as stellar on a historical basis.
As the saying goes, "you are what you drive."
Land Rover insurance costs are also much higher than average, and it's not because these vehicles are driven off road or in an African safari. Draw your own conclusions, but high theft rates would be a good place to start.
#8715 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] Audi woes of biblical proportions [domeni [lexusguy] [cstiles]
Nov 09, 2006 (10:35 pm)
"The demographic snapshot of a Land Rover customer is an executive or entrepreneur with an income around $100,000 plus."
The average Land Rover buyer is 43 years old. Sixty-six percent are male, 75 percent are married, and less than 40 percent of owners have children.