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Luxury Performance Sedans

10338 messages,  Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 870 of 1034

#8690 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] by markcincinnati

Nov 07, 2006 (3:09 pm)

Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 07, 2006 1:52 pm)
I had a 2003 allroad 2.7T w/6sd manual.
 
The engine, dare I say it?, like all Audi engines was flawless in every way. We also had over the past few years three Audi TT's also turbos. The 225HP version, our last 2, were wonderful and also (from an engine standpoint) were flawless.
 
I have been to several Audi gtg's in Europe with American Audi owners and many of them had A4's with the 2.7T engine and they loved it.
 
This engine gets to full torque at 1800 RPM and I would characterize it as having "virtually zero" lag (2003 vintage, remember.)
 
Now, at speeds above 100, the depth, so to speak, of the Audi normally aspirated V8 did shine in terms of its remaining pull.
 
But, now, with a 255HP non turbo V6, I "feel" nearly the same pull as I did with my three Audi 4.2L V8 equipped cars (2 A6's and 1 A8.)
 
Audis have always been breathtakingly expensive to possess out of warranty. You must've gotten a lemon.
 
My wife and I have had 28 Audis. Yet, in full disclosure, NEVER one beyond 50K miles. Yet, this is not because we had reliability concerns, we just loved the cars so much we wanted new ones about every other year starting in 1977.
 
They were not perfect.
 
My 2005 A6 3.2 seems darn near so, though.
 
Sorry for your issues.
 
I would buy an Audi turbo without hesitation.
 
Ditto BMW.
 
Now talk about LAG, Volvo's 5 cylinder 300HP turbo motor is a sleeper until you get the turbos spooled up, then it is a rocket.
 
Overall, I would not discount a turbo -- indeed a turbo diesel from Audi (for one) would be ideal: powerful and pragmatic -- not to mention frugal.
 
Of course, no matter what, I would want the warranty to 100K miles that comes with the "cpo'ing" one may have done to one's own car at something less than 50K miles.

#8691 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [markcincinnati] by sfcharlie

Nov 07, 2006 (3:58 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 07, 2006 3:09 pm)
"Of course, no matter what, I would want the warranty to 100K miles that comes with the "cpo'ing" one may have done to one's own car at something less than 50K miles."
 
Would you consider a third-party warranty, such as Warranty Direct as an alternative to having your leased car CPO'd?
 
What's involved in getting an Audi or BMW CPO'd out to 100K?
 
Has anyone done either recently?

#8692 of 10338 Press Request by KarenS HOST

Nov 07, 2006 (6:15 pm)

A national newspaper is looking to interview consumers who have recently purchased a luxury car for the first time and about why you decided to purchase a luxury car. Please send an e-mail to ctalatiedmunds.com no later than Friday, November 10, 2006 by 2:00 PM PST/5:00 EST containing your daytime contact information.

#8693 of 10338 Audi elsewhere by sfcharlie

Nov 07, 2006 (11:14 pm)

Unbeatable in terms of quality and reliability: the Audi A2 was the winner of the TÜV Auto-Report 2004. According to the experts at Germany's Technical Inspection Authority TÜV, no other vehicle up to three years old gave cause for fewer complaints.
 
Audi captured first place in the "Service" category of the 2006 "Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) StudySM" in China. This study, which is conducted annually, has now been published by J.D. Power Asia Pacific. By taking 834 of a possible 1,000 points, Audi shot to the top of the rankings, recording a new record points total in the process. Furthermore, Audi is the only company which has featured in the top three in each of the last five years.

#8694 of 10338 Re: Horsepower Forum (Extended Warranty?) by seloo

Nov 08, 2006 (4:55 am)

Replying to: sfcharlie (Nov 07, 2006 3:58 pm)
As we do in LPS pricing, we need to leverage our collective bargaining power and post details concerning all extended warranties for LPSs, so we negotiate and purchase with confidence.
 
Coverage, costs, experience with company, etc...

#8695 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [sfcharlie] by markcincinnati

Nov 08, 2006 (6:07 am)

Replying to: sfcharlie (Nov 07, 2006 3:58 pm)
Today there is no need to go outside of Audi for the extended warranty/service plan.
 
I guess that means my answer is no.

#8696 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [markcincinnati] by fonefixer

Nov 08, 2006 (10:04 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 07, 2006 3:09 pm)
I don't have any data to back this statement up, but I don't think my 2000 A6 2.7T was a lemon. It would be fascinating to collect stories from owners that have put on the 100,000 miles that I did and compare the Audi driving experience.
 
 Appears from discourse with mechanics and dealers that the non-maintenance items that were replaced/repaired on this Audi were about an "average" situation for the miles logged.
 
In fact, I was informed by those in the know that at about 125,000 miles, these cars have major catastrophic breakdowns and significant electrical problems.
 
This all reinforces what you have been writing for the past several years, that Audis are breathtakingly expensive to repair and driving one without a warranty/lease is a no-no.
 
I'm not picking on Audi, this just happens to be my experience the last 6+ years. Would say that all LPS are "breathtakingly expensive" to repair and who knows about their longetivity after 125,000 miles?
 
I have heard from Lexus drivers that the cars are indeed good and trouble free, but that the Lexus maintenance program is a "ripoff." Heard complaints that adhering to the schedule has you coming into the Lexus dealer every 5,000 miles for a minimum of $500+. Somebody has to pay for that new showroom /waiting room with wide screen Tv, wireless internet, free snack bar, conference room, and probably even a suite to take a nap while your Lexus is being serviced!

#8697 of 10338 Lemon/Normal/Data? by sfcharlie

Nov 08, 2006 (11:50 am)

Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 10:04 am)
If we have had some skepticism about how well CR and JDP predict reliability in a meaningful way (much less predict overall ownership and driving satisfaction), we are on even thinner ice when it comes to cars in the 75K to 125K chapters of their lives.
 
Mostly it's anecdotal.
 
On one website (British Warranty Direct) they draw on their experience paying for beyond-manufacturers-warranty repairs, and provide the 100 most reliable cars of the last decade. Here are the first 50 in order: 1 Honda Accord 2 Subaru Forester 3 Mazda MX-5 4 Mitsubishi Carisma 5 Toyota Yaris 6 Honda Civic 7 Nissan Almera 8 Honda CR-V 9 Toyota RAV4 10 Nissan Micra 11 Lexus IS 200 12 Mazda 626 13 Jaguar X-Type 14 Toyota Landcruiser 15 Volvo S/V40 16 MINI (BMW) 17 Suzuki Vitara 18 Mazda 323 19 Toyota Carina E 20 Saab 9-5 21 Lexus LS400 22 Ford Ka 23 Rover 45 24 Hyundai Lantra 25 Mercedes SLK 26 Citroen Xsara 27 Ford Cougar 28 Subaru Impreza 29 Skoda Octavia 30 Audi A4 31 Nissan Primera 32 Toyota Avensis 33 Volvo 850 34 Vauxhall Corsa 35 Seat Toledo 36 Volkswagen Golf 37 Daewoo Lanos 38 Fiat Brava 39 Hyundai Coupe 40 Mitsubishi Shogun 41 Rover 25 42 Mercedes CLK 43 Fiat Marea 44 Ford Focus 45 Peugeot 106 46 MG MG TF 47 BMW Z3 48 Hyundai Accent 49 Volkswagen Polo 50 Fiat Punto.
 
Occasionally, there are comments, like this one from David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' auto test center: "Detroit's automakers are closing the gap with top Japanese automakers when it comes to quality and reliability in the early years of ownership...But as the cars age, the difference tends to grow so that the long-term durability is basically not as good" for the U.S. brands, he said at an Automotive Press Association luncheon. "By eight years, there are likely to be twice as many problems with the domestics."
 
But CR doesn't give data to support that comment. In its detailed report, Consumer Reports drew up its list of reliable 2006 models based on the vehicles' track record over the past three years. For new or refreshed models, such as the Chevrolet Cobalt and Infiniti M35/M45, it based its conclusions on samplings from a much shorter period.
 
The trouble with complaints about German cars made five or six years ago is that the Germans, in particular, have been immersed in a very committed effort to catch up with Japanese consistency in quality/reliability/dependability, so it might be 2008 or 2009 before we see how well their efforts match the type of measurements (however much any of us might be skeptical of those measurements) made by CR and JDP, which Audi and Mercedes have made it clear they are intent on doing because they want to sell in the U.S. and they have learned that here, especially, CR and JDP wield significant influence, not in getting people to buy what they recommend but in getting people to not buy what they don't recommend -- true enough to worry Mercedes and Audi, even if each of us knows of a few friends who fell in love with and bought a car that CR said will blow up at 25K.

#8698 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] by lexusguy

Nov 08, 2006 (11:53 am)

Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 10:04 am)
I'm not picking on Audi, this just happens to be my experience the last 6+ years. Would say that all LPS are "breathtakingly expensive" to repair and who knows about their longetivity after 125,000 miles?
  
I have heard from Lexus drivers that the cars are indeed good and trouble free, but that the Lexus maintenance program is a "ripoff." Heard complaints that adhering to the schedule has you coming into the Lexus dealer every 5,000 miles for a minimum of $500+.
 
German luxury performance sedans, perhaps. Any Acura, Infiniti, or Lexus with regular oil changes should be able to do 125K miles in its sleep. Legends, Q45s, and LS400s with well over 200K on them are certainly not uncommon.
 
As for Lexus service prices, we have bought ours rather than leased them, so really we can do whatever we want with them. I'm not entirely sure what happens to the warranty if you choose to have your Lexus serviced outside of the dealer, but the chances of a Lexus needing major work while the warranty is still in effect are so slim that it may be worth it to some to give up the warranty for cheap service.
 
We've been doing the 5K mile services until the warranty has run out "just in case", and then have been sending our cars in every 7500 miles or so. The convenience of pick up\drop off is worth it to us, otherwise we'd probably use the local shops. That said, I don't think Lexus' prices are really outside the norm for luxury brands that don't cover scheduled maintainance. I know for a fact that Volvo service departments charge outrageous prices. Infiniti and Acura are probably similar to Lexus.

#8699 of 10338 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] by markcincinnati

Nov 08, 2006 (3:15 pm)

Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 10:04 am)
I work with people who have Acura's, BMW's and several other brands.
 
I would say that BMW's are breathtakingly expensive to repair out of warranty.
 
Some friends have a Lexus -- it is "largely" bullet proof.
 
However, the owner tells me little wear and tear items are also breathtakingly expensive and keep going out.
 
The phrase "overall the Lexus is very reliable, but it tends to nickel and dime you" leaps to mind.
 
Had dinner with our friends last week and they do love their Lexus -- but as soon as the warranty was over the tire pressure monitors go out. Somehow, someway, the system itself needs some parts, the wheel sending device and of course the labor to dismount and remount and WHAM the better part of $1,000 is shot.
 
I mentioned my friend with a 56,000 mile old BMW and its $900 for the FRONT rotors and brake replacement since BMW requires 100% replacement of everything and this was just for the fronts.
 
The list of breathtakingly expensive stuff just goes on and on.
 
Conversely, another friend and co worker has a 2000 Chevy pick up truck -- the big one with 4WD, leather and power everything.
 
He has had the mufflers go out twice and the tires go out twice and the "power window regulators" go out twice.
 
The thing, by comparison, "takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'" -- he has well over 100K miles on the truck and it actually looks good, rides good and sucks gas, but that is nothing new.
 
I know all the "we're not worthy, we're not worthy" evidence pertaining to Lexus and perhaps Infiniti.
 
The cost of "CPOing" is generally $1,000 to $1,500 -- it just seems like money well spent.
 
Moreover, if you are use your car about 16,666 miles per year for three years and factor in all the potential, possible and probable "normal" repair costs, precipitous depreciation (especially of LPS cars) and thrown in sub-venting from the leasing arms of a lot of these imports, well, it is clear they were never intended to be purchased in the first place (they were intended to be leased, loved and left at 50K miles or sooner, i.e.)
 
I grow weary sometimes -- especially as I age and time goes by so quickly -- since I have, at this moment, found a car I would like to keep (my 2005 A6 3.2) until the wheels turn square.
 
But, the truth of the matter is, my lease payment is $640 and change every month. My sec dep was waived, and my wakin' out costs including the first mo pay were less than $1,000 and Audi financial forgave my last three payments on my 2003 allroad (which were about $750) -- so much as I want to keep my "flawless and fun to drive" 2005 A6 3.2, it will probably be cheaper to walk away at about month 33 or 34 and walk into another new (German or Japanese) LPS car.
 
And the hell of it is, I really like this car probably better than almost any other car I've had.
 
But, as I have said, I am almost certain I would be saying the same thing had I moved forward with the Infiniti that I "came this close" to leasing.
 
I sometimes wonder if it would be possible to make cars like software, that is, allow a new release of "parts" of the car, the electronics, the instrumentation etc, to allow one to continuously evolve the car over a much longer period.
 
For the life of me, I just can't see how keeping this Audi (or any LPS car for that matter) can be made to work what with the lease payment options regularly and routinely subvented as they are.
 
One more thing, there are still some very nice 2006 A6 Slines sitting around with "-$7,500" off sticker signs on them which, when coupled with the aforementioned lease programs makes buying one incomprehensible (to me at least.)
 
So, perhaps I will "get the itch" again in 15 months -- I don't seem to have much choice since Cincinnati isn't noted for its vast subway or street car system.
 
"I can't drive 55"

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