You are here: Forums Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans

Luxury Performance Sedans

10007 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#8688 of 10007 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] by domenickamarc Nov 07, 2006 (2:01 pm)
Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 07, 2006 12:52 pm) Do you think that the new ones are more reliable?"   Well, yeah, that's what I'm speculating will turn out to be the case.   Your experience was horrendous. If I had that experience with any brand-product, from refrigerator to car, I don't know that I could ever bring myself to buy another product from that manufacturer.   But, what I'm reading, in many publications, is that the German carmakers have gotten the message, especially over the past five years: here in the U.S. we will drop you like a hot potato if we form the impression that you're peddling high-class lemons. And they quickly (frantically) have mobilized in response, essentially copying from the Japanese what the Japanese originally learned from an American theorist (about insuring consistent quality production). So, even if you just look at the progression of red (good) and black (bad) dots in CR's reports on Audi, the red dots have displaced the black ones (but not eliminated them yet) going from 2000 through 2005.
#8689 of 10007 Re: What's up with the Germans and 255 (ish) HP? [lexusguy] by habitat1 Nov 07, 2006 (2:07 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 05, 2006 7:34 am) "I'm not sure that the "German horses are bigger" argument still holds up anymore. The 335i and IS350 are just about equal in 0-60 runs, and horsepower is basically the same. The LS430 is VERY fast for its 278hp, certainly faster than the 275hp S430."   I think German horses are still bigger. On the IS350, it appears that Lexus advertises the best time anyone ever achieved, downhill, downwind as the "official" perfromance figure. BMW usually conservatively underestimates their performance figures. From Motor Trends separate test of the two cars, the BMW (4.9) is significantly quicker than the Lexus (5.5)   I've never driven the LS and S430 back to back, but I did drive the 545i and GS430 back to back a couple of years age and, in spite of similar power ratings, there was no comparison whatsoever. I subsequently saw 0-60 times by the various car magazines that put the BMW 0.5 to 1.0 second ahead of the Lexus. Even the lower horsepower rated E430 felt quicker than the Lexus, but I don't remember any road test results.   Certainly, all of these cars are "quick enough" for the luxury performance sedan segment. But I do appreciate a corporate philosophy that is conservative in it's advertising and overdelivers in substance. The 911S I have is rated by Porsche at "only" 4.7 seconds 0-60. On paper, that's not that much quicker than an IS350, if you belive Lexus figures. But all of the road tests of the 911S come in at 3.9 to 4.3, which is pretty close to supercar territory.   As an owner of two Acura's, I will give Lexus credit for at least not having to downward revise it's entire fleet for overstating horsepower the way Honda/Acura had to. But if I see a manufacturer's performance figures, I still give the Germans - especially BMW and Porsche - the highest credibility rating.
#8690 of 10007 Re: Horsepower forum? [fonefixer] by markcincinnati Nov 07, 2006 (2:09 pm)
Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 07, 2006 12:52 pm) I had a 2003 allroad 2.7T w/6sd manual.   The engine, dare I say it?, like all Audi engines was flawless in every way. We also had over the past few years three Audi TT's also turbos. The 225HP version, our last 2, were wonderful and also (from an engine standpoint) were flawless.   I have been to several Audi gtg's in Europe with American Audi owners and many of them had A4's with the 2.7T engine and they loved it.   This engine gets to full torque at 1800 RPM and I would characterize it as having "virtually zero" lag (2003 vintage, remember.)   Now, at speeds above 100, the depth, so to speak, of the Audi normally aspirated V8 did shine in terms of its remaining pull.   But, now, with a 255HP non turbo V6, I "feel" nearly the same pull as I did with my three Audi 4.2L V8 equipped cars (2 A6's and 1 A8.)   Audis have always been breathtakingly expensive to possess out of warranty. You must've gotten a lemon.   My wife and I have had 28 Audis. Yet, in full disclosure, NEVER one beyond 50K miles. Yet, this is not because we had reliability concerns, we just loved the cars so much we wanted new ones about every other year starting in 1977.   They were not perfect.   My 2005 A6 3.2 seems darn near so, though.   Sorry for your issues.   I would buy an Audi turbo without hesitation.   Ditto BMW.   Now talk about LAG, Volvo's 5 cylinder 300HP turbo motor is a sleeper until you get the turbos spooled up, then it is a rocket.   Overall, I would not discount a turbo -- indeed a turbo diesel from Audi (for one) would be ideal: powerful and pragmatic -- not to mention frugal.   Of course, no matter what, I would want the warranty to 100K miles that comes with the "cpo'ing" one may have done to one's own car at something less than 50K miles. Replies to this message: sfcharlie (Nov 07, 2006 2:58 pm) seloo (Nov 08, 2006 3:55 am) markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2006 5:07 am) fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 9:04 am) sfcharlie (Nov 08, 2006 10:50 am) lexusguy (Nov 08, 2006 10:53 am) markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2006 2:15 pm) fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 5:26 pm) and 10 more... anthonyp (Nov 08, 2006 7:42 pm)
#8691 of 10007 Re: Horsepower forum? [markcincinnati] by sfcharlie Nov 07, 2006 (2:58 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 07, 2006 2:09 pm) "Of course, no matter what, I would want the warranty to 100K miles that comes with the "cpo'ing" one may have done to one's own car at something less than 50K miles."   Would you consider a third-party warranty, such as Warranty Direct as an alternative to having your leased car CPO'd?   What's involved in getting an Audi or BMW CPO'd out to 100K?   Has anyone done either recently? Replies to this message: seloo (Nov 08, 2006 3:55 am) markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2006 5:07 am)
#8692 of 10007 Press Request by KarenS HOST Nov 07, 2006 (5:15 pm)
A national newspaper is looking to interview consumers who have recently purchased a luxury car for the first time and about why you decided to purchase a luxury car. Please send an e-mail to ctalatiedmunds.com no later than Friday, November 10, 2006 by 2:00 PM PST/5:00 EST containing your daytime contact information.
#8693 of 10007 Audi elsewhere by sfcharlie Nov 07, 2006 (10:14 pm)
Unbeatable in terms of quality and reliability: the Audi A2 was the winner of the TÜV Auto-Report 2004. According to the experts at Germany's Technical Inspection Authority TÜV, no other vehicle up to three years old gave cause for fewer complaints.   Audi captured first place in the "Service" category of the 2006 "Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) StudySM" in China. This study, which is conducted annually, has now been published by J.D. Power Asia Pacific. By taking 834 of a possible 1,000 points, Audi shot to the top of the rankings, recording a new record points total in the process. Furthermore, Audi is the only company which has featured in the top three in each of the last five years.
#8694 of 10007 Re: Horsepower Forum (Extended Warranty?) by seloo Nov 08, 2006 (3:55 am)
Replying to: sfcharlie (Nov 07, 2006 2:58 pm) As we do in LPS pricing, we need to leverage our collective bargaining power and post details concerning all extended warranties for LPSs, so we negotiate and purchase with confidence.   Coverage, costs, experience with company, etc...
#8695 of 10007 Re: Horsepower forum? [sfcharlie] by markcincinnati Nov 08, 2006 (5:07 am)
Replying to: sfcharlie (Nov 07, 2006 2:58 pm) Today there is no need to go outside of Audi for the extended warranty/service plan.   I guess that means my answer is no.
#8696 of 10007 Re: Horsepower forum? [markcincinnati] by fonefixer Nov 08, 2006 (9:04 am)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 07, 2006 2:09 pm) I don't have any data to back this statement up, but I don't think my 2000 A6 2.7T was a lemon. It would be fascinating to collect stories from owners that have put on the 100,000 miles that I did and compare the Audi driving experience.    Appears from discourse with mechanics and dealers that the non-maintenance items that were replaced/repaired on this Audi were about an "average" situation for the miles logged.   In fact, I was informed by those in the know that at about 125,000 miles, these cars have major catastrophic breakdowns and significant electrical problems.   This all reinforces what you have been writing for the past several years, that Audis are breathtakingly expensive to repair and driving one without a warranty/lease is a no-no.   I'm not picking on Audi, this just happens to be my experience the last 6+ years. Would say that all LPS are "breathtakingly expensive" to repair and who knows about their longetivity after 125,000 miles?   I have heard from Lexus drivers that the cars are indeed good and trouble free, but that the Lexus maintenance program is a "ripoff." Heard complaints that adhering to the schedule has you coming into the Lexus dealer every 5,000 miles for a minimum of $500+. Somebody has to pay for that new showroom /waiting room with wide screen Tv, wireless internet, free snack bar, conference room, and probably even a suite to take a nap while your Lexus is being serviced! Replies to this message: sfcharlie (Nov 08, 2006 10:50 am) lexusguy (Nov 08, 2006 10:53 am) markcincinnati (Nov 08, 2006 2:15 pm) fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 5:26 pm) shipo (Nov 08, 2006 6:43 pm) and 2 more... domenickamarc (Nov 09, 2006 7:18 am) and 6 more... anthonyp (Nov 08, 2006 7:42 pm)
#8697 of 10007 Lemon/Normal/Data? by sfcharlie Nov 08, 2006 (10:50 am)
Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 08, 2006 9:04 am) If we have had some skepticism about how well CR and JDP predict reliability in a meaningful way (much less predict overall ownership and driving satisfaction), we are on even thinner ice when it comes to cars in the 75K to 125K chapters of their lives.   Mostly it's anecdotal.   On one website (British Warranty Direct) they draw on their experience paying for beyond-manufacturers-warranty repairs, and provide the 100 most reliable cars of the last decade. Here are the first 50 in order: 1 Honda Accord 2 Subaru Forester 3 Mazda MX-5 4 Mitsubishi Carisma 5 Toyota Yaris 6 Honda Civic 7 Nissan Almera 8 Honda CR-V 9 Toyota RAV4 10 Nissan Micra 11 Lexus IS 200 12 Mazda 626 13 Jaguar X-Type 14 Toyota Landcruiser 15 Volvo S/V40 16 MINI (BMW) 17 Suzuki Vitara 18 Mazda 323 19 Toyota Carina E 20 Saab 9-5 21 Lexus LS400 22 Ford Ka 23 Rover 45 24 Hyundai Lantra 25 Mercedes SLK 26 Citroen Xsara 27 Ford Cougar 28 Subaru Impreza 29 Skoda Octavia 30 Audi A4 31 Nissan Primera 32 Toyota Avensis 33 Volvo 850 34 Vauxhall Corsa 35 Seat Toledo 36 Volkswagen Golf 37 Daewoo Lanos 38 Fiat Brava 39 Hyundai Coupe 40 Mitsubishi Shogun 41 Rover 25 42 Mercedes CLK 43 Fiat Marea 44 Ford Focus 45 Peugeot 106 46 MG MG TF 47 BMW Z3 48 Hyundai Accent 49 Volkswagen Polo 50 Fiat Punto.   Occasionally, there are comments, like this one from David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' auto test center: "Detroit's automakers are closing the gap with top Japanese automakers when it comes to quality and reliability in the early years of ownership...But as the cars age, the difference tends to grow so that the long-term durability is basically not as good" for the U.S. brands, he said at an Automotive Press Association luncheon. "By eight years, there are likely to be twice as many problems with the domestics."   But CR doesn't give data to support that comment. In its detailed report, Consumer Reports drew up its list of reliable 2006 models based on the vehicles' track record over the past three years. For new or refreshed models, such as the Chevrolet Cobalt and Infiniti M35/M45, it based its conclusions on samplings from a much shorter period.   The trouble with complaints about German cars made five or six years ago is that the Germans, in particular, have been immersed in a very committed effort to catch up with Japanese consistency in quality/reliability/dependability, so it might be 2008 or 2009 before we see how well their efforts match the type of measurements (however much any of us might be skeptical of those measurements) made by CR and JDP, which Audi and Mercedes have made it clear they are intent on doing because they want to sell in the U.S. and they have learned that here, especially, CR and JDP wield significant influence, not in getting people to buy what they recommend but in getting people to not buy what they don't recommend -- true enough to worry Mercedes and Audi, even if each of us knows of a few friends who fell in love with and bought a car that CR said will blow up at 25K.

You are here: Forums Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans