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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Nov 05, 2006 12:25 pm) Ok, I gotcha now. Yes, that seems to be unique to the Europeans in that they are very loyal to their own brands. Ford and GM's Opel\Vauxhall brands have somewhat of a presence, but Chrysler, GM U.S. brands like Cadillac, and the Japanese are basically footnotes in Europe. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 04, 2006 9:00 pm) I can't say my Audi ownership has been pleasant during my 100,000 mile "test-drive". Without the extended service plan, the repair expenses for this car would have approached $10,000 during the last 3 years. Joining the local Audi club was also critical because I was alerted to an able independent Audi mechanic who made the franchised Audi dealer's non service plan covered charges look downright ridiculous. My now extensive experience with the Audi brand has me convinced that these types of cars are solely lease material, you give them back after 3 years or so and move on to the next car. An Audi driver should not have to work as hard as I did to keep this car running. I was very fortunate to have been able to sell the car privately for a fair price just after the service plan expired, before the next repair issue landed in my lap!
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Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 06, 2006 4:39 pm) Thanks for that clarification. And apologies for my first post. It was unnecessarily harsh or confronting or something like that. Did the twin-turbo 6-cylinder A6, before it got old and tired, have more or less turbo-lag than the new 4-cylinder CX-7? Reliability? No question, the Americans and Germans have had to play catch-up. A whole expectation-set about cars has developed over the last twenty years, centered around Japanese cars and nurtured by CR and JDP: as consumers, we've come to expect a much better repair-experience than European and American brands have given us. But, I would say, European and American car manufacturers are catching up, while Japanese cars may have gotten about as reliable as they can get, or, in some cases, as with Toyota recently, face a danger of slipping as, ironically, their success leads to fast increases in the number of new models (shorter time making sure everything's perfect) and just plain old fast increases in production. For example, Mercury, Buick and Cadillac came in ahead of Toyota in JDP's 2006 vehicle dependability survey and Toyota has had one of its largest recalls in its history. Meanwhile, to take MB as an example, this week's Business Week has a feature article which claims that "a focus on quality and cost has the luxury carmaker humming again." We'll see, of course, but while three years ago, I would have agreed that, with the possible exception of newer BMWs, if you wanted to keep a car for 100K mile or more, you'd better buy Japanese, now I'm not so convinced that the same cannot be said about the newer Audi, MB, Porsche, and BMW models -- especially since so many of us seem to be getting the extended warranties with whatever car we buy.
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Replying to: domenickamarc (Nov 07, 2006 12:02 pm) Since the Mazda is a new model, there is no data about reliability. I just hope that it has to be better than the Audi, which never went more than 4 0r 5 thousand miles between repairs, in warranty or out. This is a list of repairs performed on this car in the last 6 years: 1.) driver's window motor 2.) passenger window motor 3.) climate control module 4.) heater blower motor 5.) front lower tie rods 6.) front brake rotors---5 times 7.) air conditioning vacuum assembly 8.) secondary electric fan 9.) turn signal module 10.) air bag control module 11.) valve cover gaskets 12.) cam chain gasket 13.) water pump 14.) timing belt 15>) tensioner rollers 15.) air pump I didn't realize when buying this car that the twin turbo Audi was, and probably still is one of the most sophisticated and complex cars on the road and getting anything fixed would be quite the chore in many ways. Do you think that the new ones are more reliable?
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Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 07, 2006 12:52 pm) Well, yeah, that's what I'm speculating will turn out to be the case. Your experience was horrendous. If I had that experience with any brand-product, from refrigerator to car, I don't know that I could ever bring myself to buy another product from that manufacturer. But, what I'm reading, in many publications, is that the German carmakers have gotten the message, especially over the past five years: here in the U.S. we will drop you like a hot potato if we form the impression that you're peddling high-class lemons. And they quickly (frantically) have mobilized in response, essentially copying from the Japanese what the Japanese originally learned from an American theorist (about insuring consistent quality production). So, even if you just look at the progression of red (good) and black (bad) dots in CR's reports on Audi, the red dots have displaced the black ones (but not eliminated them yet) going from 2000 through 2005. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 05, 2006 7:34 am) I think German horses are still bigger. On the IS350, it appears that Lexus advertises the best time anyone ever achieved, downhill, downwind as the "official" perfromance figure. BMW usually conservatively underestimates their performance figures. From Motor Trends separate test of the two cars, the BMW (4.9) is significantly quicker than the Lexus (5.5) I've never driven the LS and S430 back to back, but I did drive the 545i and GS430 back to back a couple of years age and, in spite of similar power ratings, there was no comparison whatsoever. I subsequently saw 0-60 times by the various car magazines that put the BMW 0.5 to 1.0 second ahead of the Lexus. Even the lower horsepower rated E430 felt quicker than the Lexus, but I don't remember any road test results. Certainly, all of these cars are "quick enough" for the luxury performance sedan segment. But I do appreciate a corporate philosophy that is conservative in it's advertising and overdelivers in substance. The 911S I have is rated by Porsche at "only" 4.7 seconds 0-60. On paper, that's not that much quicker than an IS350, if you belive Lexus figures. But all of the road tests of the 911S come in at 3.9 to 4.3, which is pretty close to supercar territory. As an owner of two Acura's, I will give Lexus credit for at least not having to downward revise it's entire fleet for overstating horsepower the way Honda/Acura had to. But if I see a manufacturer's performance figures, I still give the Germans - especially BMW and Porsche - the highest credibility rating. |
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Replying to: fonefixer (Nov 07, 2006 12:52 pm) The engine, dare I say it?, like all Audi engines was flawless in every way. We also had over the past few years three Audi TT's also turbos. The 225HP version, our last 2, were wonderful and also (from an engine standpoint) were flawless. I have been to several Audi gtg's in Europe with American Audi owners and many of them had A4's with the 2.7T engine and they loved it. This engine gets to full torque at 1800 RPM and I would characterize it as having "virtually zero" lag (2003 vintage, remember.) Now, at speeds above 100, the depth, so to speak, of the Audi normally aspirated V8 did shine in terms of its remaining pull. But, now, with a 255HP non turbo V6, I "feel" nearly the same pull as I did with my three Audi 4.2L V8 equipped cars (2 A6's and 1 A8.) Audis have always been breathtakingly expensive to possess out of warranty. You must've gotten a lemon. My wife and I have had 28 Audis. Yet, in full disclosure, NEVER one beyond 50K miles. Yet, this is not because we had reliability concerns, we just loved the cars so much we wanted new ones about every other year starting in 1977. They were not perfect. My 2005 A6 3.2 seems darn near so, though. Sorry for your issues. I would buy an Audi turbo without hesitation. Ditto BMW. Now talk about LAG, Volvo's 5 cylinder 300HP turbo motor is a sleeper until you get the turbos spooled up, then it is a rocket. Overall, I would not discount a turbo -- indeed a turbo diesel from Audi (for one) would be ideal: powerful and pragmatic -- not to mention frugal. Of course, no matter what, I would want the warranty to 100K miles that comes with the "cpo'ing" one may have done to one's own car at something less than 50K miles.
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Nov 07, 2006 2:09 pm) Would you consider a third-party warranty, such as Warranty Direct as an alternative to having your leased car CPO'd? What's involved in getting an Audi or BMW CPO'd out to 100K? Has anyone done either recently?
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A national newspaper is looking to interview consumers who have recently purchased a luxury car for the first time and about why you decided to purchase a luxury car. Please send an e-mail to ctalati edmunds.com no later than Friday, November 10, 2006 by 2:00 PM PST/5:00 EST containing your daytime contact information.
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Unbeatable in terms of quality and reliability: the Audi A2 was the winner of the TÜV Auto-Report 2004. According to the experts at Germany's Technical Inspection Authority TÜV, no other vehicle up to three years old gave cause for fewer complaints. Audi captured first place in the "Service" category of the 2006 "Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) StudySM" in China. This study, which is conducted annually, has now been published by J.D. Power Asia Pacific. By taking 834 of a possible 1,000 points, Audi shot to the top of the rankings, recording a new record points total in the process. Furthermore, Audi is the only company which has featured in the top three in each of the last five years. |
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