Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10006 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:59 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
|
Does anyone know if there's a website that lists the average transaction prices of the number of vehicles sold per manufacturer? Including Lease, Finance, or cash purchase? It doesn't matter how well the Japanese cars handle, they'll never be German, their cars just don't have that German car smell, feel. Japanese cars all drive the same and feel the same to a degree, from Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Acura, etc, not that it's a bad thing, but it's not particularly great either. If the Germans were as reliable as the Japanese, would that make the Japanese cars obsolete? Should the Japanes car companies be worried?
|
|
|
Replying to: domenickamarc (Oct 20, 2006 11:01 am) |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: 610looper (Oct 22, 2006 11:08 am) And saying Japanese cars all drive the same, while apparently your observation, is really not the case. Drive a Lexus GS and an Infiniti M back to back -- insert an A6 SLine (6 or 8) or a 5 series or E class even in the test. Drive the exact same route over and over. The M is very close to the German feel. Now smell is another matter. The smell of new BMWs and Audis is different. A new Mercedes always, to me, smells like that super duper leather scent you get a car wash. The Japanese cars -- especially the Lexus -- seem to have taken a page out of the current Cadillac book (not that that is a bad thing.) My Audi (2005) A6 if it were to be a representative of reliability from this point forward has been "the best ever." Those of you who know it is my 28th Audi will surely point out that it is relative to my previous experience which, I admit, was less than Lexus-like. There must be folks who don't like the German driving feel -- Lexus couldn't exist otherwise, don't you think? There are folks who riding or driving my German cars think they are stiff, harsh and "bumpy." It takes all kinds. Isn't the Camry near the top or at the top of sales? The Camry, even the new ones, is hardly rewarding to drive. But, it is predictable. I have both Honda and Toyota as clients -- they are keenly interested in quality and value. Driving pleasure, if it is in the top 10 reasons for being, must be below 5. My Toyota client in Kentucky is on the verge of adding a third shift, just to keep up with demand. The Japanese companies that I deal with don't even think about German cars as far as I can tell -- they seem much more concerned about the Koreans and other Japanese makers. German car companies NEVER come up, in fact. They just are too small in a competitive sense to make a difference. Now, maybe if I had insight into Acura and Lexus, I would be seeing and hearing different data points. The Honda guys are always busting on me for driving Audis, suggesting that I should consider Acuras instead. The Toyota guys, believe it or not, seem to think America cars are actually better "values." Of course the top guys all drive Lexus cars. Probably perks, don't you think? 
|
|
Porsche owns 20% of VW.. not the other way around.
|
|
|
Replying to: kyfdx (Oct 22, 2006 4:54 pm) The move by Porsche, last year, was thought, by some analysts, to have been forced by concerns that a European court might have been getting ready to overturn a law protecting VW from takeover. As a major parts supplier, Volkswagen is obviously incredibly important to Porsche. Porsche doesn't want to see Volkswagen in new hands, and Porsche wants to buy the requisite 25.1 percent of Volkswagen stock to give it control. Porsche shares the rest of the stock with Volkswagen and the Government of Lower Saxony. Once the approval of the takeover plan was granted, Porsche became legally allowed to purchase the remaining 3.5 percent needed to gain a controlling interest and stop worrying about a hostile takeover. |
|
|
Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 22, 2006 4:14 pm) I said, "Japanese cars all drive the same and feel the same to a degree," I didn't say they were an exact copy of each other. If you sit, feel, & touch the inside of a Camry, it's not much different from an Accord, or Altima, or Civic, or Sentra or Scion and the driving experience is not much removed either. I can tell the difference in quality, feel, and handling when I'm in the 350z or TT. When I'm in my coworkers CLK or ML and that "difference" I can't quantify it, but it's there in the Germans and the Americans and/Japanese don't have it. you said: There must be folks who don't like the German driving feel -- Lexus couldn't exist otherwise, don't you think? There are folks who riding or driving my German cars think they are stiff, harsh and "bumpy." my reply I never said anything about people who didn't like a German driving feel. There is nothing wrong with vehicles that don't have a "firm/smooth" ride, but the Germans are the ones being targeted by every carmaker. Go figure. It's funny and ironic. (Acura, Cadillac & GM, Honda, Infiniti, Mazda-Ford, Lexus, Nissan) apparently feel that if they copy the "German" driving experience to their cars, then mission accomplished. Oh and another thing, if I get/got a Lex as a perk, I'd drive it as well.. 
|
|
|
Replying to: 610looper (Oct 22, 2006 11:08 am) Japanese auto faces a very, very uphill battle in Germany's backyard market. There's slightly less of an incline in the UK auto market. In this market though, Japanese auto has nothing to worry about. Corolla\Camry makes for over 700,000 sales a year, and Civic\Accord is over 600,000. VW will never match that, and certainly the rest of the German companies won't come within a country mile. For Subaru, Nissan, and Mazda, the situation is a little different. Toyota and Honda seem invincible to market shifts, but Nissan is hurting quite a bit right now, and I think the short term outlook for Subaru is only mediocre. It will be interesting to see what kind of approach Toyota takes to managing their new investment. GM used a hands-off approach with them, and it didn't really work. Then again GM's hands-on efforts seem to come out worse (Saab, Isuzu). In the US, the only place where Japan really seems to lag behind Germany is in the LPS arena. (I'm talking just sales, not performance). The TL and G outsell the German competition at the entry level, and the LS outsells the competition at the high end level. The GS and M still get hammered by the 5 and E though. Clearly more improvements need to be made there.
|
|
|
Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 21, 2006 7:51 pm) I have a question, though. What do you mean by "minus zero the 235s"? I could find no one, including the Cadillac dealer, that could tell me if it would be bad for my all-wheel drive to put four of the same size all around.
|
|
|
Replying to: mnjasper (Oct 24, 2006 7:00 am) The best bet (and over the course of two or three years the least expensive) would have been to follow the TireRack recommendation of 235/55 R17 tires. Is it too late to change your order? Best Regards, Shipo |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: mnjasper (Oct 24, 2006 7:00 am) For instance, if your car comes with 225 x 55 x 17 tires, you can PLUS ZERO size them to 245 x 50 x 17, gaining a wider tread, a lower profile and retaining the 17" wheels. The distance the tire travels per revolution is "very close" to the factory set up, so everything continues to function normally. Plus One in this case could be done and you could go to a 245 x 45 x 18" tire/wheel combo and again potentially gain improvements from this change. Appropriate tire ratings, capabilities, compounds and design, too, will effect the outcome of such a Plus sizing. Some folks plus size ONLY for appearance sake, but often a performance boost (handling) can be gained too. Minus sizing -- is usually done for winter driving. You could minus zero or one your tires/wheels on your Cadillac. If you minus zero your wheel size will not change, your tread width will narrow and your aspect ratio will increase. If you minus one size, your wheel size will decrease by one inch. Why your dealer wasn't conversant about this is another matter. Tirerack has help on their site on this subject. I have often plus zero'd my tires on my cars to gain a bit of improvement in "turn in." Such an approach is not expensive since no new wheels are required. |
|
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2007 Lexus GS 430
2011 Acura RL
2011 BMW 5 Series
2010 Volvo S80
2010 Audi A6
2010 Infiniti M35
2010 Infiniti M45
2011 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
2010 Cadillac STS
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
