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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#8592 of 10006 Re: CR shapes the American dream [merc1] by lexusguy Oct 17, 2006 (11:18 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Oct 17, 2006 10:25 am) The Passat has always been IMO, the best car in its class that is priced out of its class.   Good point. A "to the gills" 3.6 is ES350 money, way out of the Camry's league. Replies to this message: merc1 (Oct 17, 2006 9:39 pm)
#8593 of 10006 Re: CR shapes the American dream [lexusguy] by markcincinnati Oct 17, 2006 (1:30 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 16, 2006 10:46 am) In my experience -- and this is, admittedly, a generalization -- people decide on the car they want and then work out the rationalization later.   Once again, I spent time helping someone look at cars. This time the incumbant brand was Cadillac. She wanted to look at some "similar" LPS cars. We looked at the M's from Infiniti, even the 300C and a Mercedes.   The prices, at first, were also similar.   At the last moment (although truth be told she had already decided on another Cadillac) Cadillac "forgave" her last 4 month's lease payments, made her first lease payment on the new car (waived all up front fees, so she had a $0.00 transaction for 30 days) and made her lease 36 months and 18,000 miles, rather than the more traditional 15,000 per year.   Her payment dropped nearly $200 per month on the 2006 CTS -- over her 2003.   No one else could touch it.   She wanted the Cadillac -- "once a Roll's man [er woman] always a Roll's man [sic]" -- Magic.   CR sells no cars to nobody I know of, i.e.   Of course, as usual, I could be wrong, just not uncertain.     Replies to this message: lexusguy (Oct 17, 2006 9:32 pm) sfcharlie (Oct 19, 2006 9:31 pm)
#8594 of 10006 Re: CR shapes the American dream [markcincinnati] by lexusguy Oct 17, 2006 (9:32 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 17, 2006 1:30 pm) She wanted the Cadillac -- "once a Roll's man [er woman] always a Roll's man [sic]" -- Magic.   Yeah, in that case one of the other brands would have to have some kind of miracle deal in order for her to leave Cadillac. Some people are that way, (like you and Audi, for example) but I think most of the car buying public are "lot buyers" that go to one dealership, most likely the one they bought their last car from, decide on what type of car they want, and take what the dealer has on the lot.   I'll give you an example. A few years ago, a friend of my wife was in an accident, and her Chrysler 300M was totaled. She probably would've just gone back to the Chrysler dealer for another 300M, but my wife suggested to her that I go along with her on some test drives and check out the competition. We looked at the TL, S80, Passat, A6 and she even briefly considered a 4Runner, but she ultimately went with an Avalon, which she liked a lot more than the Chrysler. I really don't think it even occurs to most people that there are about 10 other cars on the market competing directly with their car. Replies to this message: sfcharlie (Oct 19, 2006 9:31 pm)
#8595 of 10006 Re: CR shapes the American dream [lexusguy] by merc1 Oct 17, 2006 (9:39 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 17, 2006 11:18 am) True. If VW could only shave about 5K off the price of the V6 when loaded they'd rack up some serious sales IMO. I guess the Passat has to be compared with the Avalon, 300, Maxima etc.   M
#8596 of 10006 CR and Passat by domenickamarc Oct 18, 2006 (8:38 am)
I think that the Passat is a good prototype for discussion of CR's influence.   I don't know anyone who bought a car solely in the most simple-minded act of "I want a family sedan and CR says Camry is best so I ordered one even though I don't like the way it looks or drives."   I routinely hear, however, people say some variation of "I'm looking for a car in this price range" or "I'm looking for a car in this category," and then immediately mention the ones that CR reports as reliable (and so the ones they will investigate more) or immediately eliminate one because CR says it's not very reliable (and so, they are not going to test drive it) -- even, at times, adding something such as "too bad; I like the way it looks."   I've also been on test drives with friends who have wavered in this way: "I really like X. This one we're driving now is good too, but it doesn't light me up the way X does. However, CR says this one is the most reliable car in the whole class. I'd hate to buy X and then have something go wrong. I'd feel like an idiot for not having listened to CR (and/or JDP)."   If CR's attitude toward the Passat (total fantasy, I know) was some variation of "You'll pay 20% more and you might have to ask them to fix a few niggling things when you bring the car in for routine maintenance, but it might be worth it if you value innovative engineering and the engagement/fun factor of car ownership. So, we include it among the models we recommend" would that raise Passat sales? If CR was willing to write that, I'd be willing to make a wager that sales increase for Passat in the months immediately following CR's annual auto issue hitting the newsstands. Replies to this message: pg48477 (Oct 19, 2006 3:49 pm) domenickamarc (Oct 19, 2006 8:25 pm) mariner7 (Oct 20, 2006 9:02 am) carnaught (Oct 20, 2006 9:15 am) lexusguy (Oct 20, 2006 10:38 pm)
#8597 of 10006 Re: CR and Passat [domenickamarc] by pg48477 Oct 19, 2006 (3:49 pm)
Replying to: domenickamarc (Oct 18, 2006 8:38 am) Let’s put it this way, most of the people will not be able to tell the difference in driving dynamics between Accord and Passat, may be Camry (because it’s softer). Passat belongs in family sedan category, the emphasis is on FAMILY, therefore little difference in road feel will not make any difference. Why would anyone pay 4K more for potentially unreliable VW? And what innovative engineering, same old FWD FAMILY sedan, just like anything else out there?   The problem with Passat is not CR it’s the price. VW priced the car in entry luxury segment and expecting it to sell like Accord, whoever is in charge of pricing and marketing has to be fired? Replies to this message: domenickamarc (Oct 19, 2006 8:25 pm) mariner7 (Oct 20, 2006 9:02 am) carnaught (Oct 20, 2006 9:15 am) lexusguy (Oct 20, 2006 10:38 pm)
#8598 of 10006 Re: CR and Passat [pg48477] by domenickamarc Oct 19, 2006 (8:25 pm)
Replying to: pg48477 (Oct 19, 2006 3:49 pm) I agree, mostly.   I guess I didn't frame my post clearly. The intent of "total fantasy" was to alert forum participants that I was about to make up a statement about a car (not my assessment of the car) that, if CR published it, would have an impact on its readers. The point was, and this I believe to be true, is that CR's withholding recommendation (which it gives almost totally on basis of counting number of repairs) pushes some readers to eliminate a car. I was offering that as an alternative to framing a discussion of CR's influence in the language of "does or doesn't anyone buy a car only because CR tells them to?".   Also, while I agree that VW would have to lower its price to compete with Accord and Camry, I don't agree that no one buying a "family" sedan would factor in fun-to-drive. Nor do I know how we could really decide how many buyers can or cannot tell the difference between how a Passat drives and an Accord drives. Certainly, all the auto mags depend on readers believing that their (the auto mags') differentiations among comparo cars' driving dynamics will be felt by those readers (although that doesn't tell us how many consumers would make those same differentiations).   Anyway, I wasn't really intending to catalyze a discussion about the Passat.
#8599 of 10006 Re: CR shapes the American dream [lexusguy] by sfcharlie Oct 19, 2006 (9:31 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 17, 2006 9:32 pm) The last half dozen or so posts, taken together, probably paint a more accurate picture of car buying than any one alone. Some people might buy out of pure passion for one car, some out of brand habit/loyalty, some as a result of test-driving all the cars in a particular category. Similarly, some will not consider the Passat, if they find it priced $5K above the Camry and Accord, but some will, because the look and feel is compelling to them.   I doubt that we'll identify "the" car buying strategy that non-enthusiasts will employ unless an enthusiast takes them on a test-driving tour, or for that matter, even "the" decision-making process that "lot buyers" would eventually use if a more flexible and/or knowledgable friend took them around and they test-drove all the LPS cars.   That's why I agree that CR, while unlikely to be the 100% deciding factor in any car purchase, probably plays a significant role in the decision-making process of one segment of car-buyers.

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