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Luxury Performance Sedans

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#8545 of 10007 German and American writing about cars by domenickamarc Oct 10, 2006 (11:59 am)
Amazingly different ways of thinking about what makes a car terrific or recommendable...   [German] Global Insight analysts Phillip Rosengarten and Christopher Stuermer have written a new book titled "Premium Power, The Secret Of Success Of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche And Audi." In it, they describe how "premium" brands of BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Range Rover, and Volvo are superior to "mere luxury cars" from Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, Jaguar, and Rolls Royce, because they continuously set new high standards. Rosengarten calls Lexus' European sales of about 20,000 cars a year "pitiful." He also says a brand's history is important to prestige. "Without heritage, which means a glorious history and brand tradition, it will not be easy to establish a successful luxury brand in Europe, not to mention establish a premium brand. All the more so as Lexus has many American luxury-style elements with its design orientation geared towards other premium brands instead of creating its own unique elements, and it cannot showcase any important innovations," he said."   Now an excerpt from Consumer Reports' comparative assessment of Lexus IS 250, BMW 325i, Audi A4, Cadillac CTS, MB C230, and Saab 9-3: Having noted good things about the Lexus IS 250 --refinement, interior craftsmanship, easy-to-use controls, and something called "competent performance" -- CR adds that "the IS has "a fidgety ride and the steering lacks feel, making it less fun to drive than some peers. The ride is stiff and jittery [yet, somehow, "competent"]. The IS 250 is one of three of these cars CR recommends to consumers (along with the Audi A4 and the Cadillac CTS). It does not recommend the BMW 325i which it describes as "more fun to drive than the IS 250. It's taut and agile (CR says the IS 250 is not agile), with a smooth engine and a responsive transmission." But they don't recommend it. Replies to this message: warthog (Oct 10, 2006 2:38 pm) lexusguy (Oct 10, 2006 3:22 pm)
#8546 of 10007 Re: S6 - the temporary king of the LPS class? [markcincinnati] by cdnpinhead Oct 10, 2006 (12:36 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 7:33 am) . . .what extras would be gained in the S8 -- performance? Do Dads?   What else is there for the people in this segment, most of whom lease?   I keep cars for 5-10 years and have been told from time to time that the reason others lease (among others) is to be in possession of the "latest & greatest." That would be do-dads where I come from. The computer or digital camera (or audio equipment) I bought four years ago still does just what I bought it for then. Newer stuff does more things & probably costs less. Sunk cost to me -- I don't care.   The latest & greatest is (are?) not my thing, but seem(s) to be important to many others. Replies to this message: sfcharlie (Oct 10, 2006 1:00 pm) cdnpinhead (Oct 14, 2006 4:09 pm) anthonyp (Oct 14, 2006 5:34 pm) designman (Oct 14, 2006 5:52 pm) sfcharlie (Oct 14, 2006 5:52 pm) markcincinnati (Oct 11, 2006 4:47 am) lexusguy (Oct 11, 2006 10:28 am) markcincinnati (Oct 11, 2006 1:19 pm) and 1 more...
#8547 of 10007 Re: S6 - the temporary king of the LPS class? [cdnpinhead] by sfcharlie Oct 10, 2006 (1:00 pm)
Replying to: cdnpinhead (Oct 10, 2006 12:36 pm) "I keep cars for 5-10 years"   I've done that sometimes and, at other times leased for two or three years. I'm always happy to find a comment like this of yours, keeping that sensibility alive in this conversation.   What car do drive now and how many years into are you? Replies to this message: cdnpinhead (Oct 14, 2006 4:09 pm) anthonyp (Oct 14, 2006 5:34 pm) designman (Oct 14, 2006 5:52 pm) sfcharlie (Oct 14, 2006 5:52 pm)
#8548 of 10007 Re: German and American writing about cars [domenickamarc] by warthog Oct 10, 2006 (2:38 pm)
Replying to: domenickamarc (Oct 10, 2006 11:59 am) As we all know, with CR reliability trumps all. I think they would recommend a Model T over a modern BMW, or MB, or Lexus for that matter, if the ancient Ford somehow came out more "reliable" in their estimation. Replies to this message: lexusguy (Oct 10, 2006 3:22 pm)
#8549 of 10007 Re: S6 - the temporary king of the LPS class? [markcincinnati] by lexusguy Oct 10, 2006 (3:10 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 7:33 am) Do any of the Japanese brands offer the jump to ludicrous speed (Dark Helmet?)   Not in the LPS arena, no. Ultimate performance to a Japanese company is not "let's take one of our 4,000lb. luxury cars, give it a suspension overhaul, and insert a rocket motor." Thats a very German idea.   Here's the issues: 1. The current M is the first Japanese luxury sedan (at least in our market) that can even handle the "go faster" treatment. The GS400 would've been a very dangerous car with 400+hp on tap.   2. Japan doesn't really have any rocket engines, at least not in the "luxury rocket" sense. The Lexus 4.6 is the biggest, most powerful Japanese V8 ever available in the US. There may be bigger engines in the JD market, but I don't know of any in mass production.   Japan's UHP cars have always been very small and lightweight, with small displacement 4 and 6 cylinder engines, and massive turbocharging. This method allowed cars like the Supra TT and GT-R to have *wink wink* 276hp. Since Japanese automakers are no longer constrained by the 276hp limitation, the door is open for big, German style monsters. The Lexus GT V8 engine is probably going to show up in the IS, and the G or M will probably get the GT-R's twin turbo 6.   I assume the next TL is going to have SH-AWD, as Acura seems to want to offer that across their entire line. Without the current car's torque steer issues, Acura could easily turbocharge the Type S' 3.5L, and make a 350hp+ TL Type R. Replies to this message: rockylee (Oct 11, 2006 12:07 am) dewey (Oct 11, 2006 9:05 am) purplem46 (Oct 11, 2006 9:41 am) lexusguy (Oct 11, 2006 10:32 am) purplem46 (Oct 11, 2006 11:00 am)
#8550 of 10007 Re: German and American writing about cars [warthog] by lexusguy Oct 10, 2006 (3:22 pm)
Replying to: warthog (Oct 10, 2006 2:38 pm) As we all know, with CR reliability trumps all. I think they would recommend a Model T over a modern BMW, or MB, or Lexus for that matter, if the ancient Ford somehow came out more "reliable" in their estimation.   Thats not really true. They have their reliability ratings, and then the overall rating, which covers everything else about the car. They wont recommend cars that score "below average" in reliability, but that doesn't automatically mean that the most reliable cars get the best overall scores. Look at the E class vs. the GS. They rate the E 3rd from the top in the luxury category, despite it getting the full black dot for reliability. The GS has perfect reliability scores, but its overall rank is way down at the bottom.
#8551 of 10007 2007 525xi vs 530xi gas mileage by hedrick998 Oct 10, 2006 (4:43 pm)
Hi Folks,     I'm trying to decide between a 525xi and 530xi (automatic transmission). I like the extra kick of the 530 but I don't like it enough to tolerate a gas mileage plummet associated with the additional horsepower. Does anyone know if/how much gas mileage would decrease with the larger engine. I know the EPA says it's the same but I've heard you can't always trust their estimates. Thanks. Replies to this message: shipo (Oct 10, 2006 6:32 pm) markcincinnati (Oct 11, 2006 4:38 am) lexusguy (Oct 11, 2006 10:25 am)
#8552 of 10007 Re: 2007 525xi vs 530xi gas mileage [hedrick998] by shipo Oct 10, 2006 (6:32 pm)
Replying to: hedrick998 (Oct 10, 2006 4:43 pm) I know the EPA says it's the same but I've heard you can't always trust their estimates.   You're correct, you cannot trust the EPA. My own experience (and that of many other BMW drivers) is that the 530i/xi is capable of as good as, or better mileage than the 525i/xi siblings, and both engines can easily beat the EPA numbers.   Best Regards, Shipo
#8553 of 10007 Re: S6 - the temporary king of the LPS class? [lexusguy] by rockylee Oct 11, 2006 (12:07 am)
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 10, 2006 3:10 pm) I assume the next TL is going to have SH-AWD, as Acura seems to want to offer that across their entire line. Without the current car's torque steer issues, Acura could easily turbocharge the Type S' 3.5L, and make a 350hp+ TL Type R.   That's the rumor I've heard for the 09' TL. If that is true, my god us consumers will have even more difficult of a time ahead of us on choosing.   Rocky
#8554 of 10007 Pricing: 2007 Volvo S80 Starts Under $40K by rockylee Oct 11, 2006 (2:45 am)
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117081   Now here's one of my dream cars.   Rocky

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