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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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I got behind the wheel (and did not drive it) of a S6. It was, as I recall, $77K. It had the technology package and some other single options, but it was well equipped. While talking with my long time sales rep he got a call that says his first sold S8 will be in Oct 16. MSRP $122K. The S8 is the SWB version of the A8 chassis, yes? The engine is the same as is in the S6 (a few HP different.) The S8 had the $7000 B&O sound system and that counts for something, I guess. My "were I to be granted one wish" for a free Audi car WAS an S8. Perhaps if it were free, that wish would stand. But, from the behind the wheel perch of an S6, I just wonder what extras would be gained in the S8 -- performance? Do Dads? The S6 may be, at this moment, the ultimate LPS car. The M5, I can only assume, will be above that and remain at the top of the heap until or unless an RS6 comes out and then, who knows. Mercedes AMG must have something that would be competitive, what, pray tell is it? Do any of the Japanese brands offer the jump to ludicrous speed (Dark Helmet?) 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 7:33 am) 
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Replying to: laurasdada (Oct 10, 2006 8:28 am) 
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Well, I'm just catching up on all the recent posts, including the ramblings on the woes of the stick shift. My 2007 530xi 6 speed manual is due to arrive in about two weeks. Sounds like I better hold onto it for my 3 year old to drive when he turns 16, if there are any hopes of him learning what will be an "ancient art." It does seem that most of the traditional "arguments" for a stick, such as increased control, are losing ground. But, I think one poster summed it up best, when he/she essentially stated that it's simply "more fun." I simply enjoy driving my TSX around town, including in heavy traffic. It's certainly not a particularly fast car, regardless of transmission, but the actual exercise of manually shifting the gears makes the experience so much more engaging. |
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Amazingly different ways of thinking about what makes a car terrific or recommendable... [German] Global Insight analysts Phillip Rosengarten and Christopher Stuermer have written a new book titled "Premium Power, The Secret Of Success Of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche And Audi." In it, they describe how "premium" brands of BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Range Rover, and Volvo are superior to "mere luxury cars" from Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, Jaguar, and Rolls Royce, because they continuously set new high standards. Rosengarten calls Lexus' European sales of about 20,000 cars a year "pitiful." He also says a brand's history is important to prestige. "Without heritage, which means a glorious history and brand tradition, it will not be easy to establish a successful luxury brand in Europe, not to mention establish a premium brand. All the more so as Lexus has many American luxury-style elements with its design orientation geared towards other premium brands instead of creating its own unique elements, and it cannot showcase any important innovations," he said." Now an excerpt from Consumer Reports' comparative assessment of Lexus IS 250, BMW 325i, Audi A4, Cadillac CTS, MB C230, and Saab 9-3: Having noted good things about the Lexus IS 250 --refinement, interior craftsmanship, easy-to-use controls, and something called "competent performance" -- CR adds that "the IS has "a fidgety ride and the steering lacks feel, making it less fun to drive than some peers. The ride is stiff and jittery [yet, somehow, "competent"]. The IS 250 is one of three of these cars CR recommends to consumers (along with the Audi A4 and the Cadillac CTS). It does not recommend the BMW 325i which it describes as "more fun to drive than the IS 250. It's taut and agile (CR says the IS 250 is not agile), with a smooth engine and a responsive transmission." But they don't recommend it.
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 7:33 am) What else is there for the people in this segment, most of whom lease? I keep cars for 5-10 years and have been told from time to time that the reason others lease (among others) is to be in possession of the "latest & greatest." That would be do-dads where I come from. The computer or digital camera (or audio equipment) I bought four years ago still does just what I bought it for then. Newer stuff does more things & probably costs less. Sunk cost to me -- I don't care. The latest & greatest is (are?) not my thing, but seem(s) to be important to many others.
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Replying to: cdnpinhead (Oct 10, 2006 12:36 pm) I've done that sometimes and, at other times leased for two or three years. I'm always happy to find a comment like this of yours, keeping that sensibility alive in this conversation. What car do drive now and how many years into are you? |
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Replying to: domenickamarc (Oct 10, 2006 11:59 am)
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 7:33 am) Not in the LPS arena, no. Ultimate performance to a Japanese company is not "let's take one of our 4,000lb. luxury cars, give it a suspension overhaul, and insert a rocket motor." Thats a very German idea. Here's the issues: 1. The current M is the first Japanese luxury sedan (at least in our market) that can even handle the "go faster" treatment. The GS400 would've been a very dangerous car with 400+hp on tap. 2. Japan doesn't really have any rocket engines, at least not in the "luxury rocket" sense. The Lexus 4.6 is the biggest, most powerful Japanese V8 ever available in the US. There may be bigger engines in the JD market, but I don't know of any in mass production. Japan's UHP cars have always been very small and lightweight, with small displacement 4 and 6 cylinder engines, and massive turbocharging. This method allowed cars like the Supra TT and GT-R to have *wink wink* 276hp. Since Japanese automakers are no longer constrained by the 276hp limitation, the door is open for big, German style monsters. The Lexus GT V8 engine is probably going to show up in the IS, and the G or M will probably get the GT-R's twin turbo 6. I assume the next TL is going to have SH-AWD, as Acura seems to want to offer that across their entire line. Without the current car's torque steer issues, Acura could easily turbocharge the Type S' 3.5L, and make a 350hp+ TL Type R. |
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Replying to: warthog (Oct 10, 2006 2:38 pm) Thats not really true. They have their reliability ratings, and then the overall rating, which covers everything else about the car. They wont recommend cars that score "below average" in reliability, but that doesn't automatically mean that the most reliable cars get the best overall scores. Look at the E class vs. the GS. They rate the E 3rd from the top in the luxury category, despite it getting the full black dot for reliability. The GS has perfect reliability scores, but its overall rank is way down at the bottom. |
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