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Luxury Performance Sedans

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#8514 of 10007 Just a simple question? by purplem46 Oct 07, 2006 (5:51 pm)
Out of all the posters here, whether you use standard shift or some amalgam of auto shift: Who actually runs there cars on the track? Who has run their respective cars to the limits with sweaty palms? I'm interested in hearing from the hard core of the group. No offense to the family car group, but I'd like to hear opinions from those who really like to drive? Replies to this message: mbbrooks (Oct 07, 2006 6:20 pm) sfcharlie (Oct 08, 2006 12:29 pm)
#8515 of 10007 Re: Do not go gentle into that good night [designman] by cmybimmergo Oct 07, 2006 (5:52 pm)
Replying to: designman (Oct 07, 2006 5:19 pm) LOLOL! Thanks for a sorely needed (by me, anyway) bit of levity.
#8516 of 10007 Re: Just a simple question? [purplem46] by mbbrooks Oct 07, 2006 (6:20 pm)
Replying to: purplem46 (Oct 07, 2006 5:51 pm) I have a '96 Porsche 993 with a six speed manual and a BMW R1100RSL with a five speed sequential gear box. Both are great on a early weekend morning or out in the boonies. The Porsche has seen its share of PCA track days. I avoid getting caught in traffic in either.   There is great satisfaction to be gained by the perfect upshift and even more by as perfect as possible downshift. In my view you really do have more control over the car. and I really could not imagine taking the E350 Sport or not to a track day.   I think the real reason that sticks are on the endangered list is that some of the "autos" that allow you to change gears manually as you like give you 80% of the control you have with a stick but when you need a full auto you have it. The MB 7 speed is remarkably amenable to playing manual and unlike some it will not auto shift when it is not happy with what you are doing. Not that I plan on doing any track days with it.   If I had to live with one vehicle, my painful reality is that it would have to be an auto. Fortunatly autos are still very rare on motorcycles so they remain a viable alternative in addition to being the ultimate experience in vehicle dynamics if you are so inclined.
#8517 of 10007 Re: I Choose to Own My Cars [cdnpinhead] by markcincinnati Oct 07, 2006 (8:28 pm)
Replying to: cdnpinhead (Oct 07, 2006 4:22 pm) Your unwillingness to fight for an LPS car with a stick shift is part and parcel of the reason(s) they will very soon be gone altogether.   It is NOT you alone, of course. I have simply grown weary and/or broke trying to keep the stick alive.   With some tongue in cheek, I say I have put hundreds of thousands of dollars into buying/leasing stick shift cars to no avail.   Why? Cause the rest of the buying public has simply refused to do the same thing, regardless of the scale of the purchases.   When I went to Ohio's largest BMW dealer today to test drive the new X3, I found that there were three in stock -- and not a one with a stick.   One 335 coupe did have a stick. It was damn near the only car on the lot with a stick. This at a dealer that sells some 1200+ cars per year in a city with two Bimmer franchises.   Other than the one 335 and my wife's X3, I can't remember the last time I saw a BMW with a stick shift.   Folks around here must have tons of disposable income, for the number of 5 series that seems to be sold here defies my understanding of our socio-economic makeup.   Try finding a manual 5er.   True there are a few die hards, but even so, it would appear none of us -- and I hereby as of now include myself -- are willing to put out the kind of money that would get a manufacturer's attention.   I did my part, for nearly 30 years -- let's see the rest of you shiftless never folks start ponying up the bucks and demanding stick shifts.   When you reach -- pick a number -- $400,000 in stick shift cars (in a reasonable period of time), and if you all (or at least 51%) do this, well maybe, just maybe the stick can be saved.   We have met the enemy and it is us.   For me, at least, the good news is that the newest autos are quite good, the DSG's are better still and the instructors at the BMW school have given me pause to consider two hands on the wheel (at all times) gives the maximum control.   Yet, somehow, nothing satisfies quite like BEEF, er, stick shifts.   Write your Congressperson, write your dealer, write the manufacturer and tell them you want a stick shift.   Good luck unless you are willing to spend money to make this happen.   It just isn't happening is the bottom line.   It was great while it lasted. Replies to this message: lexusguy (Oct 07, 2006 9:12 pm) cdnpinhead (Oct 08, 2006 6:40 pm) lexusguy (Oct 08, 2006 8:56 pm)
#8518 of 10007 Re: I Choose to Own My Cars [markcincinnati] by lexusguy Oct 07, 2006 (9:12 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 07, 2006 8:28 pm) One 335 coupe did have a stick. It was damn near the only car on the lot with a stick. This at a dealer that sells some 1200+ cars per year in a city with two Bimmer franchises.   While there may not be many sticks on the lot, I think the stick will remain at least an option in the entry-lux class for the foreseeable future. I'm sure there are probably 0-1 TL Type S MTs on the lot, but you can get one. Same goes for the G35 sedan. There must be a lot more people interested in a 3300lb. MT car than a 4000lb. MT car.
#8519 of 10007 Re: Do not go gentle into that good night [designman] by dewey Oct 08, 2006 (4:25 am)
Replying to: designman (Oct 07, 2006 5:19 pm) That Death to the Stick Shift article reminds me of a recent conversation I had with someone who religiously buys new cars every two to three years. Such cars as BMW, Audis, Acuras and Infinitis. He told me that he finds Benzes and Lexuses not sporty enough.   You would honestly think a fellow like that would be sympathetic to the need for having sticks in performance cars? Nope not at all. This is what he asked me one day:   "You know I dont understand you? Why are you willing to spend money on BMWs and not even spend money on such a low priced option as a automatic transmission? The last time I bought a manual was in the 70s and that was because I could not afford automatic"   Apparently the atitude above is prevalent among all car buyers including luxury performance sedan buyers. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 08, 2006 2:25 pm)
#8520 of 10007 Re: I Choose to Own My Cars [cdnpinhead] by dewey Oct 08, 2006 (4:31 am)
Replying to: cdnpinhead (Oct 07, 2006 4:22 pm) When BMW & Nissan stop selling manuals, I guess I'll go back to Miatas, or something else -- I'll give up the luxury long before I'll give up the sport.   I read somewhere that Nissan intends to eliminate the manual option soon on its Versa . They want to spread CVT throughout their product-lines.   In other words the stick battle is a two front battle. Luxury cars from the top end and economy cars from the bottom end will gradually become more stick-less as the years go by.
#8522 of 10007 Re: Just a simple question? [purplem46] by sfcharlie Oct 08, 2006 (12:29 pm)
Replying to: purplem46 (Oct 07, 2006 5:51 pm) The first stick-shift car I drove at a racetrack was a 1967 Pontiac GTO. These were quarter-mile drag races.   I had a 1984 Jeep CJ-7 with a stick. I was living in a Rocky Mtn state. We often drove through areas where someone gets out and walks in front of the vehicle as you drive over uneven terrain and rocks large enough to take the bottom off, and you don’t want to stall out. On a couple of occasions, this took us to an open area at the foot of a steep (maybe 35 to 40 degree slope). Driving through the gears up and back down such slopes vindicated my father for any of his annoying comments when he was teaching me to drive the ‘57 column shift chevy he was passing along to me in 1966.   I also had a chance, just one afternoon in the late 1980s, to drive a one quarter-hour leg of a charity “rally” (softest imaginable meaning of that word) event in an Audi Quattro Sport -- time in which a wealthy collector had put up as an auction item. That was something.   On a less dramatic note, I drove a five speed Honda Accord around the hills and crowded highways of Seattle and San Francisco is the early 1990s. Then I retired from stick shifts and was delighted when, in the later 1990s, I discovered manufacturers equipping cars with tip-tronics which I like enough in that they stave off the feeling that cars are just basic transportation. I even find that, as auto engineers compete to develop their half-stick manu-matics, it’s enjoyable to compare one to another, the way we used to compare the sticks in GTOs and Dodge Hemis and Chevy Super Sports.
#8523 of 10007 Re: Do not go gentle into that good night [dewey] by dewey Oct 08, 2006 (2:25 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 08, 2006 4:25 am) Apparently the atitude above is prevalent among all car buyers including luxury performance sedan buyers.   Pardon my very bad Anglish. But all is a bit too inclusive ,although it does feel that way.

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