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Luxury Performance Sedans

10007 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#8395 of 10007 Re: C&D Comparo: M45 v. 550i v. E550 v. GS450h [drtravel] by domenickamarc Sep 25, 2006 (1:59 pm)
Replying to: drtravel (Sep 25, 2006 1:22 pm) "Look around some more and you'll find many customers of all LPS brands on these boards who regretted their decision."   Point well taken and, ironically, much akin to my main point in that my hopscotching around half-a-dozen forums wasn't even a statistically valid sampling of Edmunds forums, just what I happened to come across. In fact, what we were both bringing to attention, by reference to polls of owners asking them if they'd buy their current brand again, is that at least 10 to 20% of even of the "best-loved" brands have owners who, not long after bring baby home, will say they're disappointed and will buy something else next time.
#8396 of 10007 Re: C&D Comparo: M45 v. 550i v. E550 v. GS450h [domenickamarc] by pete_l_p Sep 25, 2006 (2:19 pm)
Replying to: domenickamarc (Sep 25, 2006 12:28 pm) Domenick   I do feel lucky to have a car that satisfies so many of my desires and one that feels like I'm sacrificing nothing. It's very rare in this high tech age, where every single product seems a trade off of one kind or another. I also wouldn't want to try to dissuade you from your choice, and you seem very happy as well. The Audi is a beautiful car and I always enjoy seeing it on the road. I'm sure there are a great number of very happy Audi owners out there.   For the record, and for the benefit of those who are in the process of making a choice, I would like to comment on Edmunds review and where it fits in the overall picture. Please take no offense from these comments, nor any less pleasure form your car.   Edmunds was one of very few reviews (out of the many, many overall), where the M has come out anything less than first. Note that Edmunds did what they called a "Sports Sedan" comparo and chose the stiffer M sport for their tests, yet they seemed to knock the M for being too much like a sorts car. I think the Edmunds staff would have been much happier with the smooth driving, great handling non-sport version. In terms of being satisfying in many different categories: The hugely varying priorities of the various reviews and comparisons that pick the M show the great breadth of the M's appeal.   The Enthusiasts: The M has won almost all comparos from the enthusiast mags including 2 large comparos from C&D, 1 from R/T, and 2 from MT. A really incredible record. These guys weigh sports car like handling more highly than everything else. While isolated excerpts can argue that some may have preferred some aspects of the other cars, the fact that the M comes out on top in these mags really speaks well for its handling/performance credentials. The Technocrats: M won luxury car of the year from both PC Mag and Popular Mechanics. Technology, software, and user interface are all such an important part of todays driving experience. These issues will really effect more of our every day experience than most buyers realize.   The Pragmatists: M won Luxury car of the year from Consumer Reports, and Motor Week (The PBS TV show). CR and MW will not weigh sports car handling as highly, nor place as much emphasis on tech. They try to look at the overall experience, practicality, quality and reliability. Also, tons more passenger leg room, fit and finish, intuitive accessible controls, all go into this kind of decision.   The Newspapers From the various reviews, the M seems to be something of a favorite for USA Today, NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times and Detroit News. They love the M for a wide variety of reasons.   The Owner Satisfaction Surveys The M beat all members of it's class in the JD powers Most Appealing Car Survey (an owner survey measuring the pleasure of owning and driving a new car), had the highest satisfaction of any luxury car in the CR annual survey, and came out much higher than the German cars in CR expected reliability surveys. (Of course, Lexus will always do well in this category as well.)   The net result IMO is simply that the car deserves a test drive from any prospective buyer.   Pete
#8397 of 10007 Re: Unbelievable [purplem46] by pete_l_p Sep 25, 2006 (3:39 pm)
Replying to: purplem46 (Sep 25, 2006 1:56 pm) This "mine is better than yours" stuff is becoming very weird.   I understand your point.   You realize, however, that if we took all suggestions of "Mine is better than yours" out of these comparo forums there wouldn't be much left. For that matter, if we took those kinds of discussions out of our culture, we'd be missing all professional sports and many other things.   My personal goal is just to try to open up some minds to a product that's given me a lot of pleasure.   Reading these forums, I get the idea that individual opinions have very little effect on opening minds, but that opinions of the "experts" might have just a little bit more.   IMO it's all good fun, and no offense is intended.   Pete Replies to this message: purplem46 (Sep 25, 2006 5:04 pm) pat (Sep 26, 2006 3:02 am)
#8398 of 10007 Re: Unbelievable [pete_l_p] by purplem46 Sep 25, 2006 (5:04 pm)
Replying to: pete_l_p (Sep 25, 2006 3:39 pm) Problem is, everyone finds an expert to validate the opinion they already made when they bought their car. I happen to find some very good qualities in about 75% of the cars that this forum discusses. I bought an M, I love the BMW five series (except for the banglisms), I respect the niche Mercedes dominates with the E series, and Lexus has made a quality product every year they have been in existance.   My point was, that if you bought what you want, it just doesn't matter who wins the magazine poll awards or which brand happens to sell the most. The chest pounding may be more telling than the opinions offered. Unless, you are affiliated with a dealership trying to sell a particluar vehicle, that is.
#8400 of 10007 Likely to buy the "X" (brand, model, color?) again? by markcincinnati Sep 25, 2006 (6:08 pm)
With cars as new as the M from Infiniti, it is difficult to know if the consumer actually WILL put money down for another one, in spite of what they may claim.   The willingness to claim "I'll probably get another one" is, however, important -- but when I read posts from "multiple offenders," I really take notice.   I have even been interested in the buy and re buy habits of/for TIRES since, until today, I was in the market for replacement tires for my A6.   Anyway, today, I would not be so keen to give a high value to "intentions."   Those folks who have multiple Cadillac's or BMW's or Acura's -- now those folks must have been treated well by their favorite brand and / or dealership.   I am certain there are one time BMW buyers -- the one's that I know are "serial offenders."   I recently went through an elaborate process of helping someone test drive a series of cars.   We started with the premise: I need to replace my Accord, I am pretty sure I want an SUV type vehicle, I am pretty certain I want to look at a CR-V and a Rav4. I am open to looking at something else.   My Audi dealer owns a Hyundai dealership. The new Santa Fe ('07) with ALL the toys on it had been highly reviewed and it obviously has a great warranty.   I set up the test drives of the cars noted and we made our first stop at the Audi dealer. "While I'm here," she says, "I'll test an A4 2.0T."   She was totally smitten.   She had to have an A4 with a whole bunch of options, bringing it to $39K.   The Santa Fe, similarly equipped was $27K -- ditto the Honda and the Toyota. The offer was made on the Audi.   The offer was met within $20.   She went with the CR-V.   No leather, no Bluetooth, no Sat Radio, no. . . .   All must have's. . .   The point has to do with the Brand Loyalty, I can only assume.   Those of you who actually have purchased the brand -- your brand -- a few times, actually have put your money where. . .your intentions are.   Speaking perhaps as an army of one, I appreciate the loyalty of those folks who keep returning to "their brand" even after testing the competition.
#8401 of 10007 To each their own by mbbrooks Sep 25, 2006 (6:15 pm)
I daresay that those of us in this forum are "mature" enough to make up our own mind as to what we like and want. We've all had enough cars and experiences to know what is most valuable to us first hand. While outside validation is always nice, I do not need the opinion of someone else to tell me what I like.   When I bought a car last month I made a point of going to all of the dealers and test driving all cars up for consideration. I ended up buying the car that I thought that I had already eliminated on certain grounds. Go figure. I'm now happier with the car than I was when I first got it - heck I've even waxed the thing.   When you spend as much dough as you will on cars in this class you really should get the car that makes you happy.
#8402 of 10007 Window tint in Florida by steveking1 Sep 25, 2006 (8:30 pm)
I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for getting very dark, illegal, window tint in the central florida area. Replies to this message: pat (Sep 26, 2006 2:58 am)
#8403 of 10007 A Tale of Two Cars by sfcharlie Sep 25, 2006 (9:11 pm)
I agree with the general sentiment of Domenick's post and those of others which question the value or enjoyment of reading "I've found the golden car at the end of the rainbow" claims, although I do understand the emotion behind such claims when they are offered in the spirit of "I'm in love with the car I just bought and I want to sing it from the rooftops."   As some of you recall, in late May I bought an M35 and within a month wished I had bought the other of my two final choices, the Audi A6. I was quite hyperbolic and dramatic in the throes of buyer's remorse. After a few months, I came back down to earth and settled into this driver's version of Thoreau's "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." In this more sober state, I realized the car was the source of my discontent only in the sense that I knew, on some level, throughout the final stages of choosing between it and the Audi that I was being inexorably pushed toward buying it largely by what I had read and not by my own reactions to driving it and the A6. A couple of Edmunds forum participants picked this up before I did and even drew my attention to what they saw I was doing. I ignored them and my own feelings and bought the M35. The aftermath was made worse by the fact that there is nothing objectively wrong with the car. Trying to argue that it is better than the Audi or vice versa is futile. The auto mags were excited about the most acceleration per dollar of the M35/M45 and CR did its job of identifying the M's valium-value in offering relief from fear of visits to service departments. I was looking to be told, I realize in retrospect, by the voice of collective authority that one car had finally been found, which trumped all the rest and was guaranteed to fit all the best. Unfortunately, for me, it was like being allergic to wool and discovering that the new Armani suit was in fact pure wool. For many, it will be the best suit they ever bought. For me, it itched every time I drove it.   Yes, past tense. My brother and his wife came to visit over Labor Day. Lo and behold, she had decided that in March 2007, she would start looking for a used M coming back off one of the first (February/March, 2005) two-year leases. She was in love with the car in my garage. She drove mine all weekend and fell more deeply in love. A local Audi dealer facilitated a buy-through process to avoid double tax paying. She has the M35 and I now have the A6. We are both as happy as each of us has ever been with a new car. Go figure. Replies to this message: pat (Sep 26, 2006 3:02 am) anthonyp (Sep 26, 2006 1:29 pm) sfcharlie (Sep 26, 2006 3:03 pm) cdnpinhead (Sep 26, 2006 4:02 pm)
#8404 of 10007 Re: Window tint in Florida [steveking1] by pat HOST Sep 26, 2006 (2:58 am)
Replying to: steveking1 (Sep 25, 2006 8:30 pm) Sorry, we don't do "illegal" here - check the Membership Agreement.

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