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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: rayainsw (Sep 15, 2006 2:36 am) Out of some 30+ German cars, only 4 or maybe 5 have been automatics and all of them except my '05 A6 have been unimpressive even though I cannot say I hated them as much as some folks. I don't think I hated them at all, in fact, I just didn't like them, thought they reduced control, were never in the gear I would've selected and the manumatic functions were slow to engage. I have and could go on and on about the 3, 4, and 5 speed automatics that I have had experience with in my nearly 40 years of driving. The current tip  6speeds and the step also 6 speeds and I am certain the Mercedes 7 speeds have all but banished the bad things from auto trans. I am also CERTAIN that Audi's DSG transmission once it is widely available will push manual transmissions largely into the history books. If you read what we did at the BMW performance school you will note it was 100% with auto trans. My wife has largely but not yet completely come to the conclusion that the instructors' commands over the walkie talkies to "increase" the speed of your hands in the exercises were able to be obeyed due to the fact that one hand did NOT have to be on the gear shift. Two pedals and ONE wheel. I drove during my turns at the wheel in S mode with BMW 4.4L V8's underfoot. I, too, can attest that the Audis on snow and ice tracks doing the exact same exercises DID indeed feel fine with stick shifts. And even though the laws of physics that affect the cars applies equally on ice as it does on dry pavement, there are differences that have to do with the VIOLENCE level. At 20kph on ice it is possible to experience understeer, oversteer, power slides, abs on/of braking, slalom runs, etc etc etc and have the behavior of the cars translate to 80kph on dry pavement. What works on ice at 20kph works with the same reaction on dry pavement but to achieve that reaction you must be going about 400% faster. When you are careening out of control on ice, the speed and "attitude" of the car is smooth and almost in slow motion. When you are IDENTICALLY careening out of control on a 30 foot wide concrete track, the speed and "attitude" of the car are anything but smooth and everything is in fast forward motion. The tires are clawing at the concrete and you are jarred, your muscles are jostled and your reaction (required) is to squeeze the controls with greater force and so on. Were I to need to press on a clutch (to prevent stalling, for instance), a gas and/or brake pedal, plus have one hand (sometimes) on the shift lever and one hand all the time on the steering wheel, I (and my wife too -- and even the instructors who elect to drive M cars ONLY with autos) can now see how being able to keep two hands on the wheel can possibly (since I am NOT a pro race driver) improve my ability to control the car in a "violent" lane change and panic stop. I would LOVE to try EVERYTHING we learned at the BMW day one performance school with my A6 3.2 tiptronic AND / OR a BMW 3 or 5 series with a stick shift -- to further educate and possibly convince myself of what I have just written. The instructors were high on BMW's (and AUDI's and PORSCHE's) steering wheel mounted paddle shifters for the "current breed" of auto trans, too. I have only briefly test driven cars with these paddles and have no opinion at this time -- but it makes sense, in any case. The proof of the response time would be the proof I am seeking. The BMW X5's in manual mode were worse than any Audi manumatic I have known -- "same day" response time, I would suggest, is how it felt. Even my A6 tip is very fast in comparison. I did not get to try an M car, for instance, with a Steptronic 6speed so I assume I would be pleasantly surprised. At this point, my wife is probably 51% into the "auto could work" attitude and paradigm shift. I am probably 65% -- but a new Audi S4 with a 6speed stick still has a huge attraction. Hope this "rationalization" is of some help at least in understanding how my wife, Ms. Stick Shift, forever, Auto Shift never, is morphing into an Auto-Believer. She IS NOT there, YET -- but she has, as of last week, crossed over the 50% line. 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 15, 2006 7:18 am) Paddle shifters are definitely much better than the various flavors of "buttons" that preceded them. I like them most when they are attached to the column and don't move with the wheel, so that left is always down, etc. |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 15, 2006 7:18 am) Eventually as she gains more skill, she'll be a believer. |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 15, 2006 7:18 am)
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Replying to: purplem46 (Sep 15, 2006 8:27 pm) Our instructor prefered SMG as #3 on a scale of 1 - 3. A point and one that is not YET entirely there, is that there is a hell of a lot less SLUSH in the current 6 and 7 speed "tronics" than in the generation that was on the market just 1 - 2 years ago. I would call BMW's step tronic 5 speed, stutter tronic it was so bad. Likewise, Audi's tip tronic was the founder of the name "tip lag" due to some mighty strange programming. The current DSG is perhaps the best of all worlds, but it is offered on so few cars produced by anyone anywhere that it remains a virtual novelty. This is changing. Yet, reviews of Audis S8 which still uses a tiptronic are, darn near, glowing. Seven speed DSG transmissions will soon be widespread in this class of cars (from Audi and BMW), when that happens, I suspect the stick shift will be special order only, if it is even certified for NA sales. |
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The British mag Car has some of the rumored details and pictures(certainly not official) of the upcoming 5 series. This picture looks alot like the current e90 3 series:  And the rear-end of this 5 series looks a lot like a Hyundai Sonata:  The most interesting specs are the following: BMW hasn't forgotten about environmental initiatives, though. The diesel engines should get urea injection – as Mercedes is pioneering – to cut nitrogen oxide emissions. A stop/start system and upshift indicator for six-speed manual versions will help reduce fuel consumption, and the engines should be biofuel- and synfuel-compatible. Brake energy-regeneration, in combination with adaptive alternator control, should also save up to 10 percent more fuel too. Link below for more 2009 5 series specs: 2009 5 Series |
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Replying to: dewey (Sep 19, 2006 6:26 am) Model - Engine 520i --- 218bhp 2.5-litre 525i --- 238bhp 3.0-litre 530i --- 272bhp 3.0-litre 535i --- 306bhp 3.0-litre twin-turbo 540i --- 367bhp 4.8-litre V8 550i --- 408bhp 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8 520d -- 175bhp 2.0-litre four 530d -- 204bhp 2.5-litre six (Typo? Maybe a 525d?) 530d -- 245bhp 3.0-litre six 535d -- 300bhp 3.0-litre six Best Regards, Shipo
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Replying to: shipo (Sep 19, 2006 6:53 am) Anything is better than (at least for the 3 series) two choices. The 5 has three, exactly 30% of the available universe outside of the U.S. |
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Replying to: shipo (Sep 19, 2006 6:53 am) My hope is that we will at least be seeing two of them: 530d -- 245bhp 3.0-litre six 535d -- 300bhp 3.0-litre six |
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Replying to: dewey (Sep 19, 2006 6:26 am) BMW really does design the worst derriers in the business. |
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