Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#8176 of 10338 Re: I still [markcincinnati]
Aug 23, 2006 (9:07 am)
When the RL was introduced it was the most interesting LPS car around for a little while.
Yes it was small in the back seat and the trunk, and yes the styling was no reason to jump up and down. But its SH-AWD was, for AWD fans, really interesting--effective, geeky, and a big improvement on FWD handling. And don't forget that its 5.1 surround system was very unusual, and for those of us (geeks?) with a collection of DVD Audio disks, it was very neat. Since we were going to get Nav, the fact that we didn't have to pay extra was nice, and then in 2006 the traffic reporting was a great (geeky) feature.
Then the M35x came along and blew it out of the water. There is only one area where the RL has something that the M doesn't: the traffic reporting. And the M does everything else better. When the RL reliability issues became well known, that was the ball game.
The history of this one is important, and looking at the RL with 20-20 hindsight is less than useful. Talking about the Accord platform is interesting, but pretty academic. Relating how the Germans are better handling is interesting, true, and irrelevant to the RL's demise, since (as is so immensely clear on this board) it was never going to capture much of that fan base.
What Honda/Acura needs is a new car built on a new platform. Nothing less will do.
#8177 of 10338 Re: I still [tayl0rd]
Aug 23, 2006 (11:39 am)
I would not agree that the TL is perceived in the market to be an exceptionally "technologically advanced" car. It doesn't mean it's not, however. You state that the RL is a "gadget-laden" Accord. To many, the perception of "gadget-laden" is akin to being "geek friendly."
Car companies clearly market to specific demographic segments. There is a reason why a higher percentage of Hyundais are driven by African Americans, for example. This is a fact. I am an African American. You perceive my comments to somehow be elitist or bigoted. Relax. It was well known within marketing/advertising circles that Jaguar was marketing specifically to the gay/lesbian and Black markets about 2 years ago. Again, this is a fact. You can agree or disagree, but let's not get into suggesting that I have an elitist agenda when I don't. It's fine that we disagree (in fact, I'm glad that we do).
My point with the lease/buy equation is nothing more than....it's my opinion. Isn't that what these boards are for? Again, agree/disagree all you want, but please don't attempt to characterize me. The fact is, 75%-85% of luxury cars are leased. You seemed to agree that Acura has offered "crappy lease deals." Couldn't that partially explain why RL volume is down?
Thanks for suggesting that the RL has 5 shortcomings. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but let me know how you REALLY feel about this car. LOL.
The volume of Infiniti FX and G is lower than the volume of TSX, TL, and MDX. Substantially lower. Oh, and I totally forgot about the Integra/RSX. And for a while the NSX was outselling the Q45. Just look at the numbers before you start typing. It's not that complicated.
Quality is a function of 3 factors....(1) things actually breaking down with the car, (2) inherent design problems, regardless of whether the car truly breaks down, and (3) perceptions of quality based on the ownership experience. Sometimes (3) is powerful enough to overcome (1) and (2). My opinion (nothing more than that) is that (3) is a factor with the RL, especially when the existing demographic of the RL owner is older, more conservative, and not as discriminating based on the design of the previous Legend/RL.
These are just my opinions, dude. Relax.
#8178 of 10338 Again
Aug 23, 2006 (12:30 pm)
Speculating about demographics is a morass of quicksand waiting to happen. Let's leave these things out of future posts, please, and just talk about the cars. Thanks!
(Mark - I know, I'm a geek too! )
#8179 of 10338 Re: I still [lansdownemike]
Aug 23, 2006 (12:34 pm)
Lansdownemike.....Thank you for your well-thought out and (IMHO) accurate *opinion*!
Sometimes this LPS board feels like a cult consisting of 8 people who keep coming back to drink more kool aid and bask in each other's glows. But I must admit there is great learning and insights from some of the posts.
And (unintended) humor.
Agree with you that a new platform is what the RL needs. Honda has to decide whether to take this car sufficiently up-market, and to make the necessary investment given their smaller resources.
There are some Honda mules of the Pilot and Ridgeline showing up that may suggest that a V8 may be in the works. Or possibly a hybrid. It's inevitable that the next RL will offer a V8 if it expects to seriously play.
The current RL is also not marketed outside North America and Japan. Another decision is whether they push the next model into Europe. I don't see that happening right now, but it must be another decision being mulled. The Honda Legend was sold in Europe, and was basically a bomb. Toyota has slowly launched the Lexus brand in Japan, with mixed results so far. It's very difficult to break into a "new" market and to change customer perceptions, even if it's your own country...
#8181 of 10338 Re: Again [pat]
Aug 23, 2006 (12:46 pm)
Ohhhh, a "morass of quicksand..." I like it.
So, when does your next book get published.
#8182 of 10338 Re: I still [cstiles]
Aug 23, 2006 (1:12 pm)
Hang in there guy. I enjoy your posts.
I especially connected with the "cult consisting of 8 people who keep coming back to drink more kool aid and bask in each other's glows."
It happens in most of the long-standing boards, & I'm at least as guilty as the next person in perpetuating it.
#8183 of 10338 Re: I still [cdnpinhead]
Aug 23, 2006 (1:48 pm)
Thanks...it's sometimes confusing to figure our whether one is "worthy" (or has a large enough ego) to be accepted into the LPS board. The posts can be long, hard to follow, self-promoting, and intimidating. And the emoticons are way overused.
I do appreciate your many posts. They are spot on and don't take themselves so seriously!
My wife loves her RL, and that is all that matters in my world sometimes. We just bought an Odyssey Touring and it is a rather cool minivan, according to our nanny. I just blissfully shift away in my 6-speed Accord. Perhaps my Honda bias is too obvious!
We used to get posts from a soldier who was in Iraq. I worry that he is okay. Haven't heard from him in a while.
#8184 of 10338 Re: I still [cstiles]
Aug 23, 2006 (9:05 pm)
Oh, and I totally forgot about the Integra/RSX.
RSX is going out of production, and will not be replaced. This is what I was getting at before. Acura did the same thing back in '03 with the CL. "We've got tough competition coming, lets quit the market".
#8185 of 10338 Re: I still [lexusguy]
Aug 23, 2006 (9:19 pm)
That is why Acura is forever sitting on the porch watching the big dogs play. No coupes, no convertibles, nothing but sedans and suvs. Yawn. Honda is going to have to change their views about the automobile in order to let Acura thrive. Honda just can't escape thinking small and sedan and now light trucks as you stated.