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Luxury Performance Sedans

10338 messages,  Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 814 of 1035

#8124 of 10338 Re: I was [lexusguy] by sfcharlie

Aug 20, 2006 (9:15 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Aug 20, 2006 12:15 am)
"The RL just doesn't bring enough to the table, and people literally aren't buying it."
 
2001: For Acura, TL was up, selling 69,484 units. RL was down almost 28% from 2000.
 
2002: TL was down 12% from 2001,but is Acura's best-selling vehicle (60,764 sold). RL goes down another 12+% to 9,392.
 
2003: Acura finished 2003 with record December sales of 15,537 cars and light trucks, up 21 percent over last year on the strength of MDX, TSX and the all-new TL. Record Acura sales of 170,918 for the full calendar year topped the previous best of 170,469 set in 2001. BUT, the TL and and RL were both down. The TL sold 56,770 (-6.6% from 2002), while the RL sunk to 6,829 sold (-27% from 2002).
 
2004: Acura Division sales in 2004 rose 16.0 percent over last year's record to 198,919 cars and SUVs. Record December sales of TSX, TL, MDX and the all-new RL pushed Acura to new December record of 20,146 vehicles, up 24.9 percent over the previous December, making it the best month Acura's 14-year history. Acura TL sales were up 36.8 percent to 77,895 and RL sales were up too: the old RL had sold only 414 units in December of 2003. The new RL was up 357% for December 2004, selling 1,967 units. That raised the RL sales for the year to 8,753 (up 28% from 2003).
 
2005: With record sales of the RL, TL and TSX sedans, the Acura Division posted a new all-time record result for the full calendar year. Acura sales in 2005 rose 5.7 percent over last year's record to 209,610 cars and SUVs, breaking the 200,000-unit mark for the first time. Acura posted record December sales for TSX and TL. The year's percentage increase over 2004 for the TL, however was under 1% (78,218), while the new RL, in its first full year on the market, was up 101% (17,572).
 
2006: This year, however, the RL is down 31.5% (versus the first 7 months of last year) having sold only 6,932 units so far. The TL is down too, but only -5.4% compared to last year.

#8125 of 10338 Re: I was [sfcharlie] by lexusguy

Aug 20, 2006 (3:53 pm)

Replying to: sfcharlie (Aug 20, 2006 9:15 am)
2006: This year, however, the RL is down 31.5% (versus the first 7 months of last year) having sold only 6,932 units so far. The TL is down too, but only -5.4% compared to last year.
 
The RL's initial strength came from the fact that it beat the GS and M to market by almost a year. I think if the RL was released for '06 rather than '05, it would've been a dud pretty much immediately. In any case, it doesn't really matter, as it is still the second worst car in the class (better than only the S-type), and it will never sell 1,967 again.
 
The TL isn't going to fare much better in the next few years. They've already gone past the Accord architecture's reasonable limit for FWD power, and yet now they want to throw in 30 or so more horses in an effort to try and compete with the G35, IS350, and 335i. Not good.

#8126 of 10338 BMW 5-series Sales History by sfcharlie

Aug 20, 2006 (5:50 pm)

2000: 39,703
 
2001: 40,005
 
2002: 40,842
 
2003: 46,964 [The BMW Group (BMW and MINI brands combined) ended its best year ever with robust twelve-month sales gain of 8 percent, reporting 276,869 vehicles over the 256,622 reported in 2002. It was the twelfth straight year that BMW posted sales increases. Sales for December were off 5 percent, at 24,915 vehicles compared to sales of 26,252 in December 2002.]
 
2004: 45,584
 
2005: 52,722 [The BMW Group in the U.S. (BMW and MINI brands combined) reported record sales for 2005, with an increase of 4 percent, to push the total over the 300,000 threshold for the first time.]
 
2006: Year-to-Date Sales of BMW Group Up 5.3 Percent; July sales off 12 Percent ... BUT 5-series sales are 31,309 so far this year, up 12.8% from 27,765 for the first seven months of last year ... down, however, for July, along with the rest of the BMW lineup (4,381 sold last July and only 3,474 in July 2006).

#8127 of 10338 My Thoughts by mbbrooks

Aug 20, 2006 (6:41 pm)

I decided to try to take advantage of August deals and went about looking for a new car to replace my 2003 Honda Accord V-6.
 
I was attracted initially to the BMW 5 series in the form of a 530i. The car looks good, gets out of its own way, rides well in the standard version, and you can get most of the bells and whistles. The problems were (1) that I'd have to order a car to get what I wanted (nav: with the iDrive you have to have the voice commands, sport package: love those seats - foldown rear seat, rear side airbags: why these are not standard I don't know, upgraded stereo: but no CD changer which takes up most of the glove box) (2) there are many 5's around here with the 525 being prevalent, and (3) a new 5 will be out in a year or so.
The dealer only had one car with Nav and it had nothing else but I was in love and would have leased it on the spot if they had given me what the website showed as the lease payment. They didn't get close and I was out of there.
 
I then spent two weeks looking around at other cars - I figured it could be a lot of fun and it was.
 
I first went to Accura since I loved my two Hondas. The TL is a nice car but it was too much like my Accord. The RL was very nice. It has a great voice command system and nav system. But the handling, acceleration, and mileage were real let downs.
 
I have no interest in Infiniti's for reasons that are not pertinent here so I did not look at them.
 
I looked at the new GS and IS Lexus. I liked them both but somehow they didn't reach out to me. There was a 530i parked outside the showroom and it seemed like a sign.
 
I went to look at Audis. I have a garage queen Porsche 993 and knew the dealership pretty well and liked them. While there were things I liked about the A6 there were things I did not like such as overall finish and materials and acceleration. I really did not feel that it was worth the money and the BMW 5 was still calling my name. While I was there I looked at Jags but was totally uninspired.
 
I was fortunate to have a friend who knew the sales manager of another BMW shop and he gave me a great quote. Armed with that quote, it was back up to the other BMW dealer to order the car. I knew what I wanted now more than ever.
 
On the way I thought I'd stop by the Mercedes-Benz dealer just to be able to say I saw everything. I have never seen myself as a MB kind of guy so I thought this would be a quick stop. Sure the cars looked and felt nice but a Benz? Pleeease. After some prompting the sales guy got me in a E350 to test drive it. It would be easier, and quicker just to be done with it and I knew that now my research would be truly complete.
 
The car I drove was a 2007 E350 with the Sport Package. It was one of the saleguy's car so I didn't hammer it too hard but I the handling was great as was the acceleration. The finish and materials were as good as I'd seen. While I have always disliked lots of buttons and dials on the dash, after 3 test drives in the BMW I was still being frustrated by the iDrive. The overall package overwhelmed the 530.
 
When they showed me a 2007 - MB has redone the front end and rear ends to some degree - E350 in Flint Grey with the Sport Package and Premium 1 and 2 packages - I was sold on the spot. Not that I admitted it of course and I negotiated hard on the deal and came out okay. The dealership has bent over backwards to make everything as pleasant as possible.
 
I have had the car for two weeks now and could not be more pleased. I really wonder why I didn't do this years ago.
 
Like I said, just my thoughts.

#8128 of 10338 according to by dhamilton

Aug 20, 2006 (10:59 pm)

Edmunds the RL was the fastest through the slalom when compared to the other cars in the class. Bimmer 5 series, Audi, and some others [can't remember. My point is, no one compares the G to the M? I don't quite get the point of the TL RL comparison. Because the TL has more rear seat leg room? The G handles better than the M. So what's the point
 I need to dig up some handling numbers for both.

#8129 of 10338 Re: according to [dhamilton] by lexusguy

Aug 21, 2006 (12:35 am)

Replying to: dhamilton (Aug 20, 2006 10:59 pm)
Edmunds the RL was the fastest through the slalom when compared to the other cars in the class.
 
Again, untrue. You really need to some more research. Edmunds recorded two slalom tests for the RL, 60, and 63mph. The 5 and A6 have beaten those numbers by large margins.
 
My point is, no one compares the G to the M? I don't quite get the point of the TL RL comparison. Because the TL has more rear seat leg room? The G handles better than the M. So what's the point
 
The M is a genuinely larger car, with features you can't get on the G, a V8 for one. The point of the RL TL comparison was you claiming that the RL handles better. The other point is that unlike the M, and every other car in the class, the RL offers nothing over the TL other than AWD and a few minor tech tricks.
 
The A4 3.2 and A6 3.2, 330xi and 530xi, IS and GS AWD, G35x and M35x can all co-exist because the midsize cars actually offer something other than a different body style. If Acura made an AWD TL, RL sales would drop to zero.

#8130 of 10338 Re: according to [lexusguy] by merc1

Aug 21, 2006 (2:59 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Aug 21, 2006 12:35 am)
And there it is, well put. For all the time I spend on cars it never really occured to be that the RL was even remotely based on the Accord platform.
 
M

#8131 of 10338 Re: according to [merc1] by markcincinnati

Aug 21, 2006 (4:46 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 21, 2006 2:59 am)
I often mistake the RL for an Accord, until I get within a certain range or perspective.
 
I always assumed the RL started life out in some respects as an Accord.
 
Takes all kinds.

#8132 of 10338 Re: according to [markcincinnati] by merc1

Aug 21, 2006 (4:54 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Aug 21, 2006 4:46 am)
Do you realize what this means? Every sedan Honda/Acura makes except for the Civic is more or less on the same platform or a variation thereof. Yikes! The only real difference is whether or not it is built on the European Accord platform or the U.S. one.
 
M

#8133 of 10338 Re: My Thoughts [mbbrooks] by cdnpinhead

Aug 21, 2006 (6:13 am)

Replying to: mbbrooks (Aug 20, 2006 6:41 pm)
Thanks for that.
 
In the smaller class, I added the C230 to my short list. The BMW 3 is #1 on the hit parade, but the C is right behind -- both are RWD & can be had with a manual.
 
That said, the (as always, anecdotal) reports of electrical/electronic & other troubles on the Mercedes "problems & solutions" boards are rather off-putting.
 
I'm hoping you'll post again in a few years telling us about your 50K+ miles of trouble-free Mercedes ownership. Good luck, and enjoy that new car.

Messages Page 814 of 1035

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