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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
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Replying to: merc1 (Jul 30, 2006 9:53 am) A boost, yes . . . but this isn't the real help that Infiniti needs, IMO. There are other issues. Heck, if badged as an infiniti, the GT-R would be great car, likely lost in the ambiguity of the Infiniti badge, and that would be another tragedy for another great car. Nissan needs to re-think the marketing of the Infinity badge, because the cars are MUCH better than their sales figures would suggest, IMO. This situation reminds me of Audi to an extent. Although I do believe that Audi is now on the right path, thank goodness. I still wonder about Infiniti. TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Jul 30, 2006 10:02 am) The problem I think with Infiniti is that they're pretty much all sedans and SUVs. The G35 being the sole exception. IMO to be what I call a full-service luxury brand/provider you need Coupes, Convertibles, Roadsters and some type of performance variants. I mean on paper Cadillac is a more a luxury brand than Infiniti is with their much broader range of products, but how many of us here would take a Cadillac over an Infiniti? The G35 has done a lot for them, but the car has a dated and imo cheap interior that just doesn't cut it anymore. It appears that the 07' G addresses this issue while improving upon the current car's strengths. I myself have always like the Coupe better, and for 08's it appears it will make the Merc1 lust list again. The M is selling as well as can be expected IMO since they're basically coming out of nowwhere in the market segment. For it to outsell the Lexus GS here and there some months is outstanding IMO. Sort of a M5/E63 fighter the M lineup is pretty solid, IMO. I guess they could throw in a M45x for the few sales it would net. The Q45 is where Infiniti starts to turn for the worse. This car has never been able to get out of the Lexus LS's shawdow and then they tried to market it as some type of full-size sports sedan when nothing couldn't have been further from the truth. The Q is the definition of a lame duck and its lineage pretty much sucks if you can remember the previous generation which actually was smaller, slower and worse looking then car it replaced. Brilliant move on their part if destroying a nameplate is the goal! I really don't know what suggest for them to do about the Q. I can't seen Nissan spending the money to make it a S-Class/LS type luxo-crusier and actually beating them at that. Forget about taking on the A8 and especially the 7-Series unless you're going to actually make the thing sporty. A convertible version of the next G35 Coupe would be nice as well as G45 version to tackle the M3. Heck make it both sedan and coupe form, BMW is going to do just that with the next M3. Infiniti needs something "special" like that or a GT-R based something. As far as their SUVs, the FX is all they have worthwhile, of course IMO. The FX's looks tickle me (in a good way) looking like something a gangster in a cartoon would drive, short, fat and stubby, but good looking if you can picture that. It really drive like a tall sports car too. The QX on the other hand is just another big ole truck truck wit a big ole grille, but the Cadillacs own that segment when it comes to "bling". Audi has a similar situation like you state, but ah Audi knows what they've go to do hence the RS4, S6, S8, and more importantly the upcoming A5 Coupe and R8, the latter of which will be totally unique among luxury car brands. No one else, not BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, Acura (well after this year), not even Bentley or Aston-Martin has a mid-engined sports car in their lineup. I've long said this about Audi, that all sedans and wagons (they didn't have an SUV until now!) kept them from elevating their "status" or "image". M
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Replying to: merc1 (Jul 30, 2006 1:45 pm) Good point. Acura is the same way at the moment. They'd rather just kill off their coupes than work to make them more competitive, leaving basically two Accords, an Accord Euro, an Accord wagon, and a CR-V. Not good. The Q45 is where Infiniti starts to turn for the worse. This car has never been able to get out of the Lexus LS's shawdow and then they tried to market it as some type of full-size sports sedan when nothing couldn't have been further from the truth. The Q is the definition of a lame duck and its lineage pretty much sucks if you can remember the previous generation which actually was smaller, slower and worse looking then car it replaced. Brilliant move on their part if destroying a nameplate is the goal! I really don't know what suggest for them to do about the Q. I can't seen Nissan spending the money to make it a S-Class/LS type luxo-crusier and actually beating them at that. Forget about taking on the A8 and especially the 7-Series unless you're going to actually make the thing sporty. The Q's problem has always been that its just 16 feet of car, about as anonymous as you can get. That, and the interior was always awful, basically Nissan quality with some extra wood trim. Making the "Q41" for 1997 supposedly had something to do with making the car more "light and nimble", by shaving off 200lbs. thanks in part to the smaller engine. (It also allowed them to avoid the gas-guzzler tax) we all know how that turned out. For 2002 they just made it wierder, without making it better. If the best thing you can think of to advertise the car is how great the headlights are, the car has serious problems. As far as their SUVs, the FX is all they have worthwhile, of course IMO. The FX's looks tickle me (in a good way) looking like something a gangster in a cartoon would drive, short, fat and stubby, but good looking if you can picture that. It really drive like a tall sports car too. The QX on the other hand is just another big ole truck truck wit a big ole grille, but the Cadillacs own that segment when it comes to "bling". The FX is a great product, something totally different from what Lexus and Acura have. The QX is not. It's everything thats wrong with the "old Infiniti", an almost transparent rebadge of a Nissan product. That, and it's less reliable than a Land Rover.
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Infiniti & Nissan go into the great beyond is in terms of efficiency. As others have pointed out, getting good acceleration numbers isn't too hard, so long as you're willing to throw MPG under the bus. The car I'm driving threw MPG under the bus for a whole different reason -- ultra-low emissions. I drove an Eagle Vision with a 3.5 V6 that consistently got 2 mpg better than my 3.0 Lincoln LS. But the LS is an ULEV -- oh boy. Is Nissan/Infiniti chasing that green dragon as well? Are Audi & BMW classified in the same emission category as the Infinitis? Is it better to burn 35% less fuel & emit a bit more "pollution," or get the certificate and 17 mpg? What I like (among other things) about Audi & BMW is that they do what they do and still get 25+ mpg on the highway -- 30 mpg on a good day. Infiniti hasn't a prayer of doing that, given their present tilt.
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Jul 29, 2006 10:25 pm) Furhter advances are sure to come as FSI evolves. Of course, now BMW seems keen to embrace turbo charging as Audi seems keen to produce huge power from non pressurized engines. I can't wait (as if they'll do it) for a super-turbo charged FSI engine (such as the Audi 3.1) that easily achieves over 300 HP and well over 300 pound feet of torque at about 2RPM. |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 30, 2006 5:53 pm) That gave me a chuckle.  That having been said, I'm thinking that you doth exaggerate a bit, it's probably more like 60 rpms.  Best Regards, Shipo
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Replying to: shipo (Jul 30, 2006 5:57 pm) Seriously, I have read all about the combination of super and turbo or an electric assist to a turbo charger to eliminate turbo lag. But imagine what the 3.1 FSI engine could output with even a mild turbo application (remember the last iteration of the 2.7T bi-turbo?) -- easily 300HP and what? 325 lb ft of torque at 1850 rpm? The full on RS treatment to this engine would certainly be capable of a horsepower number beginning with a 4. The 4.2FSI hasn't even begun to show its capabilities. Wonder what will come to pass.
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 30, 2006 6:15 pm) Best Regards, Shipo |
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Replying to: cdnpinhead (Jul 30, 2006 5:39 pm) Lexus as well. The IS350 has more horsepower and torque than the G35, and at the same time is rated 21\28 and is ULEV-II. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 30, 2006 5:34 pm) I agree. I couldn't remember the displacement of the V8 in that car, but that was it a 4.1L V8. The QX is not. It's everything thats wrong with the "old Infiniti", an almost transparent rebadge of a Nissan product. That, and it's less reliable than a Land Rover. Youch! M
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