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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10006 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:59 AM
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Replying to: dhanley (Jul 25, 2006 9:04 pm) Have to believe about what Mark Cincinnati says about out of warranty repairs----"breathtakingly expensive!" I will have to pay for the water pump/timing belt portion of the repair (about $1500.00) because that was maintenance, not so-called warranty repair, the belt did not break in service. When the Audi is finally repaired on Friday,time to either sell it outright or trade towards something else, I don't want to pay $2000 for the air conditioning, or $5000 when the tiptronic transmission goes out next. Probably going to join the world of leasing. Since I will always have a car payment, why not drive a new one every 3 years with repairs covered, instead of a payment and the cost of service on top? |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 25, 2006 2:34 pm) |
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Replying to: marleybarr (Jul 26, 2006 7:56 am) I'm not sure i understand your comment with regard to payments & repairs. While $4000 is a lot of money, what are even lease payments going to be on a car like the 2.7T? As per the audi website, a $0 down lease on a base 3.2 is going to be $738/mo. After tax, perhaps $800? That means that unless you have you make a $4000 repair every 5 months, leasing isn't cheaper. Now, i understand the attraction of having a newer car with a warranty, i really do. I may lease my next car, but i am not under the impression i'll be saving money if i do. |
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Replying to: dhanley (Jul 26, 2006 8:50 am) Having said that I certainly agree with the equally broad generalization that most people who buy Japanese LPS's really don't care about the fun stuff.
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Replying to: lansdownemike (Jul 26, 2006 9:19 am) That may be true in "generality", but I have to say I am an exception to that rule. The deciding factor on my purchase of an M45 Sport (besides all the neat toys) was acceleration only slightly less torrid than a BMW M3, auto camber rear wheel turn-in for cornering, .90 G skid pad results, a nearly roll free body, and grippy 19" wheels. My only regret was that a manual transmission was not available, a complaint shared by many Lexus owners. To me, "Fun Stuff". |
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My $53,286 MSRP A6 w/o dp or sec dep or cap cost reduction from moi and for 15K per year is $640 including tax.  36 months I will have purchased one set of tires and paid $23,040 in lease payments. Were I to buy the car and finance it over 60 months the payment would be $60,000 approximately (about $1000 per month.) For the sake of argument, however, lets say I got the car for $900 per month which is 60 x 900 $54,000. Over 60 months I would have paid the $54K plus two sets of tires (assume $750 per set) or $55,500. I would have been without warranty for 25,000 miles (5 years 15K = 75K.) And in the case of an Audi I would have been without free maintenance since 50,000 miles, too. The "expensive" maintenance happens AFTER 45,000 miles -- you decide the number to assign to the after 45K maint requirements -- I'd say $1,000 (but I think it is more like $1,500). At 60 months, then I would have a car that I have paid out at least $56,500 assuming I have had no repairs. I would have a five year old car and no payments -- and on going routine maintenance of at least $250 per year until the first next major service interval. My per month cost is close enough to $1,000 to call it $1,000. I assume the car would be worth ? 25% of its MSRP as a trade -- call it $13,500 for the sake of argument. I could have CPO'd it (and prudence dictates I should) or Platinum protected it (Audis new extended super warranty) -- although this is approximate, this would be about $2,500 (or more, had I done it before the factory warranty had expired.) I would have, now, then an even greater per month "ownership" cost per month. But, theoretically, I could go another 25,000 miles without too much financial worry. Call it another 20 months. Using my most optimistic glasses, I remember at least one more set of tires will be needed and I can conclude that to go 100,000 miles with at least a 95% worry free experience will make my ownership cost for 80 months rise to "about" $800 per month. I have no idea what an 80 month old 100,000 miles on the OD Audi A6 would be worth and what it could be translated to in terms of a trade in value. $5,000? -- if true, my per month cost for the 80 months would be in the neighborhood of $740. I would have nothing, no car, no debt, no payments of any kind and I would be lighter by $740 x 80 or $59,200(if I had no non covered breathtakingly expensive expenses). For a car that had an MSRP of $53,286 to only cost in total $59,200 -- after 80 months -- is, shall we say, "unlikely." The thought of paying this much for 80 months may be what will motivate our fellow poster, Max, to pause and consider if he is going to pay $800 per month (about) for 80 months and end up with nothing, perhaps he might just want to consider making the same payments but at month 80 be on his THIRD new car (assuming lease terms of 36 months) and still be under the protective factory warranty cocoon. Just a thought. Of course, in my case, if it is indeed possible to lease a new $50K car for about $600 per month, in perpetuity, well what is wrong with a "permanent" car payment based on an on going need to drive 15,000 miles per year? Just another perspective, one that perhaps Max is attempting to come to grips with. I conclude: leasing is NOT for everyone. My in-laws, at retirement, cut from two cars to one and no longer have any need to lease -- they own. But at 6,000 miles per year. Now, hopefully back to the "personality" differences between American, German and Japanese LPS "owner/drivers." I have been frankly pleased that we have all remained pretty much "non defensive." Of course, there is NO NEED to be defensive on this matter. Perhaps the German car owners are unconcerned with wicked awsome sat nav systems. Based on what I've seen, the A6's voice acitivated sat nav is darn near primative -- apparently Acura or Lexus or Infiniti ownwers wouldn't put up with what passes for "avionics" in Germany. 
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Replying to: dhanley (Jul 26, 2006 8:50 am) In my case, I have tried hard to be an Audi enthusiast owner the last 6 +years and nearly 100,000 miles, but I find myself spending more and more time and from this point on--- substantial repair dollars, dealing with Audi service issues and still owing almost $14,000 on a 6 year old Audi with nearly 100,000 miles and now no warranty for anything. Also, one must factor in the extreme inconvenience of the logistics of repairing the Audi, securing a rental car along with a seemingly forever car payment. I can't match Mark Cincinnati's convenience of the leasing experience, all the while trying to run a one man business without dealing with what lately seems like a full time job just keeping the Audi running! Leasing appears to be an attractive alternative for me, although I probably won't lease a $738/mo.+ no downstroke 2006 Audi A6. |
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There might be two basic questions one could ask a guy about his car: “What does that car do?” and “What does that car do for you?” A 1999 Passat was my first German sedan. Even at $24,000 it gave me a taste of German engines and German suspensions/steering/handling. What it did was its modest version of cornering on rails. What it did for me was get me excited about driving in a whole new way. Paid off over 5 years, it went another year (and up to 99K miles) under extended warranty (with one my kids driving it most of its last year -- his first car) before I sold it for $7,000. I still have fond feelings for it. Next came a 2004 BMW 325i, leased for 2 years. New level of excitement for me. Relative to Passat, it did the German thing better; and for me it was always aesthetically uplifting (to look at or be in) and “made me” want to drive it. In so far as the cliched pop psychology theory of what cars are for American men (an identity item) it was a good feeling I had about myself when driving it. Recently began leasing an M35. It does many more things than the BMW, but, I’ve discovered, doesn’t do as much for me. The latter is obviously more subjective than the former. It simply has way more luxury amenities and technology. That it doesn’t do as much for me (aesthetic appeal of exterior wore down a bit; pleasure of very good acceleration is diluted some by awareness that it’s coming from gearing that runs it at high rpms rather than from a state of the art engine; cornering/handling/steering a bit too much lighter than the BMW or the Audi A6 S-Line I had considered) is only a matter of taste. I drove a friend’s M35x and it feels like it has a tighter suspension and a tighter hold on the road (inspires more confidence, as is sometimes said) but maybe that’s just “in my mind”.
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Jul 26, 2006 12:32 pm) Yet, I am wondering if I would be as enthusiastic to dialog about the M35X as I clearly am about the Audi. Your rhetorical (I presume) post seems to indicate you are NOT unhappy with your choice, but it seems to me you probably will not be a repeat buyer for the M "doesn't do as much" for you as you would have expected or hoped (and yes, I agree that is largely subjective.) Perhaps had I started off with a Japanese car or perhaps if the first car I bought with my own money was Japanese, I would feel different. My first brand new car, purchased with my own money was in 1977, when I bought a 1978 Audi 5000. Like you, I thought the thing felt like it was on rails. To this day, nothing has ever duplicated the handling, the "carving" capabilities of a German car -- and lord knows I have test driven enough of them from all over in an attempt to find the holy grail. In fact, the M35X did come very close to the German feel -- enough so, in fact, that the Germans hopefully bought several copies to see what makes them tick. Now, the Chrysler 300C AWD wasn't bad, but it wasn't German. The SRX with Magnaride was pretty close too, as a matter of fact. And, even a CTS with a sport suspension and upsized wheels feels like it must've come from across the Atlantic somewhere. Remember. . . For all its hopes, dreams, promises and urban renewal, know this: The world continues to deteriorate. GIVE UP! You are a fluke. . . Of the universe. You have no right to be here. And whether you can hear it or not. . . The universe is laughing behind your back. Flashback. Bygones. |
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